News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Reverse-engineering a vintage power supply chip from die ... by londons_explore on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @04:43PM (#28226844)
It surprises me that even today nearly every power supply has a dedicated chip in like this whose task is switching a transistor on and off with the correct timings to regulate an output voltage, using mostly analogue components.

It surprises me that this role hasn't been replaced with a tiny ARM core running some firmware to do the same. The benefit is the core can be self-tuning. It can detect components going out of spec and warn and/or compensate. It can have digital comms with the rest of the system to set all kinds of parameters, allowing a more flexible design and allowing bug fixes in the field. It can have lookup tables to tune efficiency for input/output voltage, load, etc, in a way an analogue design never could.

Considering a tiny microcontroller has a BOM cost of just 4 cents, in the same region as dedicated power supply chips, I don't see why software-controller-switched-mode-supplies aren't common.

Re:Reverse-engineering a vintage power supply chip from die ... by milankragujevic on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @04:49PM (#28226940)
Too much complexity without any benefit (when adjusted for new failure cases and cost of additional components and complexity).

Electronics is mostly KISS, not only motivated by the financial factor but also reliability, manufacturing, etc.

So far micro controllers are too expensive, too sensitive to unstable power supply, too complex in general (requiring some support components in some cases, have an additional prefabrication step for flashing firmware by the chip vendor, and cost a lot more.

There is no clear advantage to the approach you mentioned.

Re:Reverse-engineering a vintage power supply chip from die ... by userbinator on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @10:45PM (#28229788)
The "new failure cases" it adds are rather exciting -- if the MCU locks up or glitches, which they are prone to, then it could short the supply rails and blow the switching transistors, or destroy the connected load by overvoltage. Analog control ICs, while they are not 100% reliable either, have many safeguards built-in that can react nearly instantaneously and don't depend on the relatively complex process of executing machine instructions.
Re:Reverse-engineering a vintage power supply chip from die ... by londons_explore on Thursday August 19, 2021 @03:15AM (#28231221)
There are plenty of systems where a software failure leads to permanent hardware failure. This would just be one more.
Re:Reverse-engineering a vintage power supply chip from die ... by londons_explore on Thursday August 19, 2021 @05:50AM (#28232016)
The main benefit is probably a wider flatter efficiency curve. Instead of saying "this power supply is 98% efficient when delivering 1 Amp (but more like 80% efficient at 0.1 amps or 2 amps), the power supply can adjust the switching frequency to trade off switching losses and output ripple for efficiency if the application allows.
Re:Reverse-engineering a vintage power supply chip from die ... by AussieWog93 on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @06:38PM (#28228036)
I've come across a broken laptop before that had a complex power control computer like what you've described.

I ended up repairing it by hard-resetting the NVRAM and forcing the power control computer back to its initial "reset" state.

This was a common enough problem that the manufacturer had a step-by-step guide showing how to fix it on their website.

The moral of the story is that adding complexity, even when that complexity is designed to increase robustness, usually just means that there are more systems that can fail.

Re:Reverse-engineering a vintage power supply chip from die ... by kens on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @05:42PM (#28227557)
Well, your ARM-powered chip will need some analog-to-digital converters since the feedback signals are analog. And you'll need a high-current output driver to control the switching transistor. And some sort of startup circuit to provide power before the processor starts running. And an undervoltage lockout circuit to prevent the processor from malfunctioning if the voltage drops. So you still have a bunch of analog circuitry but you've added an analog-to-digital converter and a microcontroller. There are some applications where this tradeoff makes sense, but in a lot of cases it would just be excess complexity.
Re:Reverse-engineering a vintage power supply chip from die ... by pwr-electronics on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @07:27PM (#28228491)
You can use an MCU as a controller. Here's an example.

https://youtu.be/m8rK9gU30v4

The problem is that you can't make every controller with an MCU, and you can't always make a competitive controller with an MCU.

There are already controller ICs that are configurable. In fact, modern controllers are a mix of analog and digital hardware. They do everything an MCU would do in that situation, but faster, less invasively, and with less power. Often, they do more than an MCU because they're not slowed down by an instruction cycle.

See my comment before last for an example of a software-configurable hardware controller.

Condition monitoring is a thing, and it's done with MCUs, DSPs, and FPGAs. But controllers sit on the non-isolated side of the gate driver, where they have basically no physical access to any useful signals. That's why condition monitoring is separate.

The lookup table idea is used for motor control. It's called a firing angle table. But that's a slower application.

Re:Reverse-engineering a vintage power supply chip from die ... by pjc50 on Thursday August 19, 2021 @01:55AM (#28230793)
This is definitely happening in onboard power management for systems with batteries. I suspect it's just big generic PSUs that stick to old analog ASICs.

Not self-tuning, though, they have to be tuned and all that software written.

Dedicated PMIC chips will be mixed signal, with digital control and analog failsafes.

Re:Reverse-engineering a vintage power supply chip from die ... by kevin_thibedeau on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @04:54PM (#28227005)
Before switching ICs became ubiquitous it was common to roll your own with an 8-bit micro. It isn't cost effective now because of the additional external components, board area, and NRE you'd need vs the single chip solution.
Re:Reverse-engineering a vintage power supply chip from die ... by markrages on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @06:23PM (#28227909)
I was actually looking into that this week due to chip shortages... it is not cost effective, but if the alternative is sitting and waiting a year for the specialized switch controller to become available again, that NRE doesn't look too bad.
Re:Reverse-engineering a vintage power supply chip from die ... by labcomputer on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @11:15PM (#28229951)
TI makes some DSP chips with a dedicated peripheral (basically just a high resolution timer with some fancy capture/compare units) for doing PWM for power supplies.

Supposedly it can also detect shoot-through and modify timing to compensate.