News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:First town in America to ban new gas stations by dmitriid on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @09:48AM (#28220879)
I drove a fully electric car over the weekend within 100 kilometres of Stockholm.

No. The tide is not turning. The vast majority of charging stations are inside the city. And the vast majority of places in those stations a slow, 3kW ones, with a sprinkle of 11kW in between. There are maybe ten 50kW ones in the entire Stockholm area.

If the only thing you do is commuting, and you have a place to charge your car overnight at/near your home, then you can drive an electric car. For anything else? Good luck.

Re:First town in America to ban new gas stations by usrbin on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @10:02AM (#28221037)
Charging station availability is a bit of a red herring though. Like you said, it's really dependent on charging overnight/when you're not using the vehicle. Obviously the viability will vary from person to person, but considering that a huge portion of car owners don't need more than 100 miles a day, just charging at home is a viable option. For those people, EVs provide a better overall experience.

I agree we need to improve charging station availability. With a few exceptions, EVs are generally not well-suited to long-distance travel.

Re:First town in America to ban new gas stations by dmitriid on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @11:37AM (#28222734)
> Charging station availability is a bit of a red herring though.

How is it a red herring? It's a real need that has to be addressed to make EVs viable.

On Saturday we drove to a popular destination just 70 kilometres away from Stockholm (that is, 140 kilometres both ways). That popular destination has a total of 6 charging places with may be three of them with 22kW chargers, and the rest of them 7kW and 3kW.

To ensure we wouldn't get stuck, on Saturday morning I drove into the city to one of the 50kW chargers hoping they wouldn't be occupied, and spent an hour waiting at a cafe while the car was charging.

On Sunday we went for a longer trip. An unimaginable 135 km from Stockholm. I hoped to once again charge the car in the morning, but the 50kW charging spot was taken, so I had to contend with a 43kW one. It didn't charge as fast. We only had 260 km worth of charge in the car, and had to make a 1-hour-long stop at a McDonalds on the highway that had a total of 4 quick chargers that were miraculously unoccupied.

> For those people, EVs provide a better overall experience.

Somehow you assume that's the only experience "those people" are ever going to have.

> just charging at home is a viable option.

Ah yes. "Just". It's simple. Just charge at home. You only have to provide charging infrastructure at home. And provide that infrastructure for all homes (because the end goal is to make all cars electric, isn't it?).

Right now I live in an apartment complex with 154 apartments. It's one of the Stockholm's suburbs that is basically a village with a commuter train passing through it. Surely, you can get to the city, and public transportation is still excellent, but you do end up driving significantly more than you would in a city (if for the sole reason that all distances are increased compared to the city).

So, you need to provide electric outlets to all ~154 parking places near the complex. And to ~200 outlets to the neighboring complex. And to the next one. And to the next one... Who is going to pay for that, I wonder? Though I know. The "revolution" will happen at the expense of people who are told they will benefit from it.

Re:First town in America to ban new gas stations by myself248 on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @10:14AM (#28221161)
The old saw has been "then you take the train", which only works for folks who are comfortable on trains, and whose type of travel fits with train schedules. I like having my own car, and I like roadtrips without schedules.

For me, an EV needs about 8 miles of range for commuting, and about 1000 for vacation, and it's just silly to own 992 extra miles of battery the other 355 days a year.

Which is to say, I think we're rushing prematurely into completely ending gasoline vehicles. They should be phased out, but "phased" is the operative word -- let some linger in applications where they're still better suited. I currently drive a hybrid and I plan to replace it with a PHEV, not a BEV, for that reason.

Re:First town in America to ban new gas stations by nivenkos on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @10:27AM (#28221379)
But you write as though that privilege is an inalienable right?

No-one is going to confiscate all gasoline vehicles, but they need to pay for the externalities in air pollution, CO2 emissions and noise pollution, etc.

If the US paid $6+ a gallon like most of Europe does, I think the tide would change pretty soon.

Re:First town in America to ban new gas stations by lucaspm98 on Wednesday August 18, 2021 @10:46AM (#28221700)
In the US having access to a car is much more of a necessity for work, shopping, and travel than it is in Europe due to suburban sprawl and lack of public transportation. I can't say it's a right, but it is a need for practically everyone outside of dense urban centers.

The average EV costs $19k more than the average gas-powered car. This gap is closing but for the time being only upper-middle to upper class Americans can switch to EVs, so making gas artificially scarce/expensive will disproportionately affect those who can't afford to make the switch.