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Re:The Perl Foundation is fragmenting over Code of Conduct e... by nemothekid on Saturday August 14, 2021 @11:24AM (#28181366)
>It was like the US Constitution with separation of church and state. Let's focus on the law and leave our religious differences out of it.

I think the pre-internet nostalgia of a proper “informal mediation process” is about as genuine as believing the US has an actual hardline between church and state.

That said, it’s funny you turn to “trans” issues as some powder keg when the article is about whether a committer should be allowed to push something along the lines that says “ni—-er get a job” to CPAN. I can’t think most professional communities would have caused a stink about that on their mailing list

Re:The Perl Foundation is fragmenting over Code of Conduct e... by makomk on Saturday August 14, 2021 @11:36AM (#28181460)
If I'm following all this correctly, the role of the person standing behind the committer that used the n-word in commit messages was literally to purge "toxic" elements and enforce social justice orthodoxy within the Perl Foundation, until she resigned and accused the rest of the board of not caring about the safety of the community. I would honestly be unsurprised to find she'd outright been invoking trans rights to get her way in unrelated disputes; that seems to happen a lot these days. A lot of this has nothing to do with whatever oppressed groups it's meant to be helping and everything to do with the raw exercise of power.
Re:The Perl Foundation is fragmenting over Code of Conduct e... by mst on Saturday August 14, 2021 @09:04PM (#28185334)
That's completely wrong.

Sam was absolutely doing her best, and if her initial decisions with regard to me were perhaps arguably a trifle draconian, I'd note that "a moderator getting out over their skis due to an excess of righteous anger" is absolutely somebody I've been significantly more times than Sam has.

The only person standing behind said committer's racism was lizmat, who forced me to reverse the ban I laid for the original fucked up cpan upload and has been attacking me for thinking he was a problem since.

However, lizmat has now resigned from TPF; I hope she isn't as much of a problem to raku conduct enforcement going forwards as she's been elsewhere, but I have faith in the raku team's ability to manage that issue and don't intend to interfere with their doing so.

Re:The Perl Foundation is fragmenting over Code of Conduct e... by lizmat on Saturday August 14, 2021 @03:31PM (#28183343)
FWIW, she was not standing behind this committer. This committer, by the way, has been asked to resign from the Raku Steering Council over this (which he did). This committer has also been banned for 6 months over this from any Raku community activity, specifically on the IRC channels by the Raku CAT.

And she has terminated her relationship with the committer.

The toxic element to be "purged" from the Perl community, has now returned and will make the Perl community more to his image . Which will only get more people to leave the Perl community. But that is no different from the past 15 years that I have had the pleasure of dealing with this toxic element.

Re:The Perl Foundation is fragmenting over Code of Conduct e... by mst on Saturday August 14, 2021 @09:00PM (#28185322)
Liz, as the person who forced me to reverse Patrick Spek's original ban for uploading a perl6-n_gg_r directory to cpan, I don't feel your opinion on my "toxicity" is necessarily universal.

I am, however, very glad that the Raku CAT has since corrected your mistake.

I am very well aware that I can be an asshole sometimes, but unlike you I don't defend outright anti-black racism because, to quote Patrick, "I call my black friends that" and "it's just a word".

Your repeated opposition to code of conduct enforcement is unfortunate but now you've resigned I hope we'll be able to move forwards on that matter without your personal dislike of me interfering.

Re:The Perl Foundation is fragmenting over Code of Conduct e... by codesections on Sunday August 15, 2021 @07:02AM (#28187781)
A correction: Liz has been entirely supportive the Raku Steering Council's efforts to establish our Code of Conduct[0] and to enforce that Code.

(I know that part of this comment is referring to events that took place years ago; I don't have any firsthand knowledge about those events but want to correct the record about the present)

[0]: https://github.com/Raku/Raku-Steering-Council/blob/main/pape...

Re:The Perl Foundation is fragmenting over Code of Conduct e... by mst on Sunday August 15, 2021 @10:46AM (#28189170)
This is not the only instance of Liz opposing conduct enforcement, but I don't feel like tracking even more drama in onto the carpet in that regard.

I appreciate that she's revised her opinion on this specific case and apologise for not making clearer that she's done so - I only wish she'd be more supportive of code of conduct enforcement in other cases.

Re:The Perl Foundation is fragmenting over Code of Conduct e... by h_anna_h on Saturday August 14, 2021 @11:49AM (#28181584)
> should be allowed to push something along the lines that says “ni—-er get a job” to CPAN

He didn't push it to CPAN, his dotfiles repo is not on CPAN. Please do not spread misinformation.

Edit: The CPAN thing is different. It contains a directory whose name is "perl6-nigger", you can find it at http://backpan.perl.org/authors/id/T/TY/TYIL/Perl6/App-Cpan6...

Re:The Perl Foundation is fragmenting over Code of Conduct e... by cygx on Saturday August 14, 2021 @12:07PM (#28181729)
From the article:

Riedel's complaint to the board points out that this isn't Spek's first racism rodeo. CPAN still offers downloads containing a 2017-era tarball from Spek with a folder named "perl6-n[word]". We downloaded the linked file and can verify that it's still available from CPAN, and it does in fact contain that folder.

Re:The Perl Foundation is fragmenting over Code of Conduct e... by zozbot234 on Saturday August 14, 2021 @11:58AM (#28181667)
OTOH, he did push a funny-named package to CPAN, as seen in OP's screenshots.
Re:The Perl Foundation is fragmenting over Code of Conduct e... by okareaman on Saturday August 14, 2021 @11:36AM (#28181455)
> believing the US has an actual hardline between church and state.

Did I say "hardline"? No, that's your word. Of course there isn't a hardline. It's an ideal that we try to maintain. It's a stated goal that we can all read in black and white. We have lawyers and constitutional scholars to mediate disputes over this stated goal.

> it’s funny you turn to “trans”... “ni—-er get a job”

I don't know why this is funny. Or are you saying that you are offended I even brought it up?