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Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by jonfw on Friday August 13, 2021 @11:22AM (#28170035)
Let's say I start a Saas company and it does really well. Somebody offers to invest at a valuation of 25$ million bucks. By most standards of evaluation net worth- I'm worth $25 million bucks now.

who seizes ownership of my company?

What's to stop me from offering you $10 bucks for .0001% of your company and making you illegally rich?

Taxes on net worth won't work because net worth is abstract

Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by libertine on Friday August 13, 2021 @01:05PM (#28171583)
>Taxes on net worth won't work because net worth is abstract

If it's abstract why can you use it as collateral? You have to make up your mind, it's funny money or real money?

Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by jonfw on Friday August 13, 2021 @04:19PM (#28174004)
I can also use my word as collateral, should I be taxed on that?
Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by libertine on Friday August 13, 2021 @05:08PM (#28174551)
Do you think your word has the same millage has 25 million net worth.

Because that's what we're talking about here.

I don't know how the banking system works in the US but I doubt you'll be able to buy much money with your word alone.

Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday August 13, 2021 @11:34AM (#28170212)
The tax could be such that you are forced to turn over shares in the company to the state. The bigger you get, the more shares you have to give to them, the more influence they have on company decisions.

In theory, this would act sort of as a general purpose regulation. Instead of using the force of law to make companies comply, it uses the force of its share votes.

Of course, there are a bunch of ways this kind of scheme could go wrong too.

Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by andreilys on Friday August 13, 2021 @11:40AM (#28170338)
Centralizing state power has never gone wrong in the history of humanity right?

And we all know how efficient government bureaucrats are. I can just imagine the joys of having civil servants dictating how you should run your company.

Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday August 13, 2021 @11:59AM (#28170633)
> And we all know how efficient government bureaucrats are.

A common refrain in the private sector, but having worked in both I can assure you that any sufficiently large organization is at least as inefficient as a government.

> I can just imagine the joys of having civil servants dictating how you should run your company.

We do that today through regulation. There are reasons we collectively want some level of control over how companies are run.

Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by andreilys on Friday August 13, 2021 @12:02PM (#28170675)
We do that today through regulation. There are reasons we collectively want some level of control over how companies are run.

Regulations are different from a Washington bureaucrat far removed from your company having to approve your new fiscal year roadmap or plans to pivot the company

Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday August 13, 2021 @12:05PM (#28170706)
Why would that be significantly different than anyone else with a voting share? It's not like the government is incapable of hiring the kinds of people who sit on boards of directors.
Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by ericd on Friday August 13, 2021 @11:53AM (#28170551)
That sounds hilariously demoralizing. Talk about Pavlovian training in the wrong direction, every time I find a way to boost the value of my company, I have to sign more of it over the government.
Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by jayjader on Friday August 13, 2021 @12:00PM (#28170639)
It depend on what is done with said boost. It would go straight into your wallet? Makes perfect sense to me for the government to get an additional cut. It would go straight into the companies' salaries? No reason for the government to touch it more than it already does.

Obviously, there's room for nuance and it's not just one or the other.

Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by ericd on Friday August 13, 2021 @12:26PM (#28171025)
Company value is decreased when earnings are dividended out “into your wallet” or paid out in salaries, so I’m talking about neither.
Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by jayjader on Friday August 13, 2021 @12:43PM (#28171283)
obviously, just like I'm talking about what you _do_ with the increase. Are you really just saying to leave the increase in value alone? Then why pursue it?

I'm under the impression that an increase in company value is not an end to itself, it's a means to an end (more investment, more dividends, higher sell-off/buy-off price, increased stock price, etc - all are more probable when company valuation increases).

So why are you looking to increase your company's value?

Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by ericd on Friday August 13, 2021 @01:35PM (#28171936)
Basically, for most founders past the point where material comfort stops mattering, I think it’s power. The power to do what you want in the world. More ambitious projects, especially. Eventually that can get to extreme heights, like trying to design rockets that go to Mars, or trying to stamp out malaria.
Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday August 13, 2021 @12:02PM (#28170663)
Yes, that's kinda the point I think. You could save a bunch of money by filling your product with asbestos and making employees pee in jugs, or you could just, you know, not do that because then you have to hand over more control of your business to the government.

Granted, this also disincentives societally beneficial efficiency increases.

Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by ericd on Friday August 13, 2021 @12:29PM (#28171071)
You realize that those examples are the extreme exceptions that the press has made hay out of, and aren’t representative, right? Most company value boosting actions are much more boring.

I wonder how much of this backlash is just a result of people being propagandized to by the media’s steady drumbeat about corporate abuses since the GFC.

Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday August 13, 2021 @12:44PM (#28171295)
I am not convinced that these are exceptions. By and large, corporations are run by people who see no problem with exploiting others and the more successful they are, it seems, the more willing they are to exploit. That's why we invented unions, and labor regulations, and all the other regulations for that matter and it still isn't enough to stop them from doing it.

Texaco dumped a bunch of waste in the Amazon and refused to clean it up or pay for it. Why is this not surprising to anybody? Oh, right, because we all know that this sort of thing happens all the goddamned time.

Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by nitrogen on Friday August 13, 2021 @11:43AM (#28170376)
Generally, a deeply intertwined state and corporations is called by a term that tends to get overused. State ownership of businesses is usually not seen as a good thing.
Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday August 13, 2021 @11:51AM (#28170523)
That's a fair point, which I honestly hadn't quite put together when I wrote that. Still, falls under the "lots could go wrong" category.
Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by flyinglizard on Friday August 13, 2021 @11:39AM (#28170325)
What does the government know about managing tech companies?
Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday August 13, 2021 @12:08PM (#28170742)
Ideally they wouldn't care much about the day to day operations of a company or even that it is profitable and they would use their voting shares only to prevent decisions that actively cause societal harm or to favor ones that actively benefit society.

Like I said, there's still a lot that could go wrong with that scheme, but it isn't like the current scheme doesn't have its problems too.

Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by flyinglizard on Friday August 13, 2021 @12:15PM (#28170835)
How would you manage this very site by these criteria? Would you still cover cryptography, freedom of information, civil unrest and bills which damage fundamental rights?
Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday August 13, 2021 @12:29PM (#28171069)
Does this site even make money?

Ok, assuming that we're treating HN like a business and that business is large enough to have significant government voting share under this scheme:

The government voting with its shares to silence those stories would potentially be actual censorship under the US constitution, and therefore illegal. The same cannot be said about private owners.

Of course, the government could opt to transition the site away from those topics entirely, but again that's something the private owners could do too.

And none of this prevents small competitors from coming in to run those stories.

Let me turn it around: Would Facebook have more or less freedom of speech with government control?

Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by flyinglizard on Friday August 13, 2021 @12:33PM (#28171131)
I’d assume Facebook would be appointed a partisan czar during each administration, much like many government agencies. Unlike the EPA or FCC though, controlling Facebook has huge political implications.
Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by AnIdiotOnTheNet on Friday August 13, 2021 @12:47PM (#28171336)
Right, so it is best we leave that to Mark Zuckerberg, who surely has no political agenda whatsoever.
Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by ksdakfasdf on Friday August 13, 2021 @11:29AM (#28170135)
It's abstract until it isn't. Is the offer to invest 25$ million abstract?
Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by CodesInChaos on Friday August 13, 2021 @11:34AM (#28170209)
The offer is to invest 2.5M in exchange for 10% of the company. There is no offer to buy all your shares for 25M.
Re:Millionaires call for an emergency tax on billionaires by jonfw on Friday August 13, 2021 @11:40AM (#28170345)
It's absolutely abstract! Who is this buyer, does he really have the money, is he going to follow through, is this legal?