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Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by ars on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @07:49AM (#2811722)
Good article - up until the point where he claims the Republicans are the "rogue elephants". To the other side the Democrats are the "rogue elephants", and it's interesting that the author appears incapable of seeing that.

A truly irrational person is a rare thing. If you are unable to explain the actions of your opponent in any other way then the fault lies within you, not them.

Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by jbooth on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @11:28AM (#2812537)
Have you paid attention to what's going on at all? Republicans are rejecting a plan that's significantly to the right of their initial demands. And they're currently pushing for a bill that reduces the deficit less than the democrats' plan, with the twist that the limit has to be reauthorized multiple times before the next election. Just to insure that congress doesn't accomplish anything and the markets are uncertain going into election 2012.

Splitting the difference is a major problem here. The Republicans are incentivized to be as crazy as possible because attitudes like yours, and most editorial boards will just split the difference assuming 2 valid points of view. So the crazier you are, the further the split will be in your direction.

Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by sciurus on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @12:03PM (#2812717)
For those interested, summaries and comparisons of the plans currently in the House and Senate, the positions of Obama and Boehner when negotiations broke down on the 22nd, two bipartisan senate plans, and the earlier House Republican plan are all viewable at http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/07/22/us/politics/20...
Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by Retric on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @08:09AM (#2811763)
I think he is calling Republicans "rogue elephants" because they have split into dysfunctional elements is reasonable. When significant portions of their party are not willing to make any deal they lose their majority standing in the house and are forced to act as a minority party in both the house and senate.

PS: A basic functional strategy would be to block any Democratic bill in the senate and then pass a poison pill in the house which they can then present as the "only option to avoid default". Instead their only option is compromising in the Senate so they can get enough Dem support in the House to pass something. However, they are still acting like they can pass something in the House and blocking legislation in the Senate.

Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by jpadkins on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @08:35AM (#2811844)
They did pass a bill, the debt ceiling is tied to a balanced budget amendment.
Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by eftpotrm on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @09:16AM (#2811959)
Which is frankly ridiculous grandstanding. If nothing else, a quick look at exactly how the deficit developed will reveal the hollowness of current pleas from some wings of the Republican party for a balanced budget amendment:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/opinion/sunday/24sun4.html

Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by jpadkins on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @12:33PM (#2812881)
caps on future spending and a balanced budget amendment is ridiculous grandstanding?

keep in mind the group that passed this bill were not in the congress 2 years ago, let alone 10. Also keep in mind the republican leadership that was in office the last 10 years did not endorse or get behind the cut, cap, balance bill either. T

Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by eftpotrm on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @01:16PM (#2813080)
Yes, it is.

* Boehner has been in the House since 1991 and has been in a senior position for most of the time since 1995, so he has his part in the history.

* If a balanced budget amendment was such a major priority, there was plenty of time to pass it when President Bush was in office and raising the debt limit. This isn't about the principle but the opponent, amply illustrated by the reams of incoherent, provably incorrect slurs against President Obama from Tea Party activists.

* The proposals currently being insisted upon produce less savings than Democratic proposals but with the means to re-ignite this debate during next year's election campaign; their motive isn't a fiscally responsible solution but an attempt to inflict political damage.

* While it's true that Tea Party supporters weren't in congress 2 years ago, they're not there now in substantial numbers either. To argue that a small group of inexperienced politicians backing an incredibly economically naive platform should be allowed to have the final say is absurd; they are being used as cover by the Republican leadership.

* If the priority was truly balancing the finances then the targets would be different. Bush's top-end tax cuts were a huge contributor to the deficit yet are being treated as sacrosanct. US military spending is 5 times the nearest rival (China) and approximately equal to the next 20 biggest spenders; this is ego and corporate welfare, and a far better source of savings than the soft targets proposed. Equally if the healthcare bill combined with Medicare and Medicaid was too expensive in its current form (somewhat surprising given the CBO forecast savings rather than increased costs from its introduction) then the correct answer is not repeal but extension - single payer, whenever examined, has been cheaper. http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single_payer_system_cost.php?page=...

So, I repeat myself. What the Republican leadership is proposing, including a balanced budget amendment, is not fiscally responsible measures to try to regain control of American government finances. It is ridiculous grandstanding to try and inflict political damage on their opponent by deliberate misrepresentation of the both the history and the facts.

Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by jpadkins2011 on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @02:37PM (#2813458)
Rand Paul's balanced budget in 5 years proposal: http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/03/sen-paul-unveils-5-...

Your assessment of the republican leadership is correct, your assessment of the tea party caucus is off. It will probably play out the same as the 94 republican revolution, where the leadership takes over the movement and resumes deficit spending.

The goal is not spending or balanced budget per se, the goal is to maximize freedom and minimize the impact of the federal government on the individual citizen. So single payer health care is not optimal if you value freedom of choice. If your only criteria is cost, then we should just make all doctors and nurses slaves, because that is cheap.

Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by eftpotrm on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @03:18PM (#2813666)
(Why the new account to reply to me?)

'Freedom' is one of those 'motherhood and apple pie' terms that gets thrown about, but with very little rigour behind its use. Freedom to what, exactly? The alleged virtuous benefits for freedom of the current healthcare situation (as you brought up that one in particular) are somewhat illusory to my mind when the current limited offering is costing the taxpayer more - financial freedom would be enhanced, not diminished, by a more comprehensive offering, while providing improved service. There's no realistic proposal to limit one's choice to pay for alternative treatment if one prefers, but the current system is, frankly, provably a waste of money.

Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by jbooth on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @01:01PM (#2813018)
Yeah, it's ridiculous grandstanding because they don't have any plan or budget that actually gets there.

Chanting "cut cap and balance" repeatedly without any substance behind it is the definition of grandstanding.

Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by DennisP on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @09:47AM (#2812105)
I think his point is not that Republican policies are irrational, but that Obama is assuming the Republicans are ultimately willing to compromise to avoid default, and actually they're not.
Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by rcthompson on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @08:18AM (#2811788)
I assume the author is making reference to the fact that the elephant is the Republican mascot: http://media.nowpublic.net/images/3d/5/3d5c7422c1c56dc249ed9...

Of course, it doesn't justify the claim, but it might trick people into believing it if they aren't paying attention.

Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by fullgodwin on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @08:46AM (#2811870)
To the other side the South Koreans/Kulaks/Jews/Blacks are the "evil" ones, and it's interesting that no one is as wise as I, the keeper of the Great Scales of Balance, who knows the truth: if there are two sides, they are equally good and bad.
Re:Game Theory Take On - Washington’s Rogue Elephants by eru on Wednesday July 27, 2011 @09:48AM (#2812111)
The regime in East Germany was truly worse than in West Germany. And they knew that, even though official propaganda said something different.

(The contrast between South Korea and North Korea is, of course, even more striking. But I did not grow up in Korea.)