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Re:Infrastructure bill cryptocurrency surveillance provision... by noduerme on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @05:19AM (#28047143)
How can anyone enter the market quickly with an app that takes crypto as payment, if you have to register as a broker and meet KYC standards? Suppose you want to sell character costumes or start a subscription podcast in crypto, rather than paying royalties to Apple or having payment processing through Visa. Are you going to demand ID verification from all your listeners? It basically makes it so onerous to a startup that no innovation can happen
Re:Infrastructure bill cryptocurrency surveillance provision... by trasz on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @05:35AM (#28047249)
Can you give example of a cryptocurrency startup which innovated anything useful?
Re:Infrastructure bill cryptocurrency surveillance provision... by astoor on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @06:20AM (#28047493)
> Can you give example of a cryptocurrency startup which innovated anything useful?

This is a trap I've seen many technical folks on HN fall into - they define "useful" along the lines of "beneficial", or "productive", or "worthwhile", rather than simply "is used". Think of casino tokens. They have no intrinsic value, and can only be used within very limited set of environments, so you could think of them as useless in the strict sense. But that doesn't stop large numbers of people using large numbers of them on a regular basis, and the operators make hundreds of billions a year from the people using them, so they are "useful" in the sense of "being used" to serve a strong human desire (just not to make the world a better place).

Re:Infrastructure bill cryptocurrency surveillance provision... by trasz on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @06:23AM (#28047524)
As opposed to defining “useful” along the lines of “generating profit”.

So, sure, cryptocurrency startups can innovate a new way of making money. But it doesn’t make them useful. One could argue it doesn’t even make them not harmful.

Re:Infrastructure bill cryptocurrency surveillance provision... by astoor on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @07:02AM (#28047775)
I would also prefer "useful", as in "capable of being put to use", to apply to uses with net positive outcomes for society - I was just trying to make the point that, unfortunately, many others don't.
Re:Infrastructure bill cryptocurrency surveillance provision... by CPLX on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @08:36AM (#28048412)
Yes you are correct. Cryptocurrency at the moment is used for speculation, drug sales, scams, and evading financial regulation.

Those are huge valuable use cases. However it doesn’t follow that we should necessarily facilitate those uses.

Re:Infrastructure bill cryptocurrency surveillance provision... by noduerme on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @10:33PM (#28056564)
It also doesn't follow that we should impose onerous restrictions on everything related to a technology just because some people misuse it. eg we don't require documentation of the source of footage from websites who show videos made by hobbyists who fly drones, even though 99% of global drone sales by the dollar are used by governments or terrorist groups to kill people. And we don't punish the hobbyist or the website that shows their videos, or the website that links to that. Down that road lies total information control and state terror.
Re:Infrastructure bill cryptocurrency surveillance provision... by hkt on Thursday August 05, 2021 @02:28AM (#28070526)
I hate to break this to you, but state terror is already perpetrated by western states against their own people and the world. Those drones are a good example. Then there is Guantanamo bay, the militarisation of police, disproportionate prison sentences.. the list goes on.
Re:Infrastructure bill cryptocurrency surveillance provision... by trasz on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @07:59AM (#28059951)
But we do: if your business is weaponry, you’ll be pretty tightly controlled.
Re:Infrastructure bill cryptocurrency surveillance provision... by noduerme on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @01:12PM (#28051662)
I'm reticent to get into this because it involves value judgments about what's "useful". Are in-game skin purchases useful? Not really. Should we prevent then from being sold because they don't match your definition of usefulness?

To my thinking, provably fair casino games are a useful innovation that sprang from cryptocurrency. Decentralized poker is another. If you find the entire global gaming industry useless, then I guess those are also useless innovations. Again, that's a value judgment.

I don't think it's fair to conflate the people/businesses trying to profit from the crypto speculation craze, pyramid shemes or shitcoins, with e.g. businesses that want to accept crypto to avoid paying a % of their income to Visa. Yet that's what this law would do.

Re:Infrastructure bill cryptocurrency surveillance provision... by trasz on Wednesday August 04, 2021 @08:03AM (#28059979)
Of course the skins are useful: they provide entertainment. Unless you’re trying to exploit your customers; most countries don’t care, but eg China does have laws to prevent kids from being exploited by game companies.

Very good point about the provably fair casino games. I didn’t even know they exist. However note that casinos are regulated too - you can’t eg serve minors.

Re:Infrastructure bill cryptocurrency surveillance provision... by cle on Tuesday August 03, 2021 @10:18AM (#28049482)
Brave.

(This question often leads to moving goalposts and quibbling over definitions of "useful innovations".)