Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investments in hybrids, hydrogen

Re:Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investment... by cycomanic on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @11:46AM (#27985179)

There's been quite a few studies questioning the current focus on EVs with ranges of 400km and more. Largely because they are so heavy and are therefore not very energy efficient. The argument is that most peoples daily commute is less than 50km (in Europe), but they still by an overly heavy EV for the 5-10 times a year they go on longer trips. Instead a plugin hybrid could be much more efficient, because you can use it in EV mode for your commutes, but you can still use the car for long trips, without the significant weight (and corresponding inefficiency) increases of an EV. I suspect this is very much a function of the driving pattern, and I suspect in the mid-term future this will change with more efficient battery technology.

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Re:Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investment... by etempleton on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @01:13PM (#27986254)

The current focus on long ranges is largely because Tesla is leading the charge in electric vehicles and Tesla is an American automaker. Commutes are often longer and conditions vary widely across the country and from season to season making predicting the true range difficult.

Plug-in hybrids may make sense, but I would imagine that including both a full power ICE and electric motor together and having them work together makes a more complex vehicle with more potential points of faliure. You also have the added weight of the duplicate components. The Chevy Volt, for example, weighs more than a base Model 3 and only slightly less than the long range configuration of the Model 3.

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Re:Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investment... by virgilp on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @11:56AM (#27985307)

But... are we pretending here that the ICE and gas & all the plumbing etc don't weigh anything? It's not like PHEV have zero additional dead weight.

A quick search says "Car engines can weigh up to 1,000 pounds" and "Tesla S has a massive battery weighing 1,200 lbs" - so, are your really saving that much weight with PHEVs?

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Re:Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investment... by chipsa on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @12:55PM (#27986005)

You can size the PHEV range extender engine to be much closer to the steady state power requirement, and tune it towards such as well. The BMW i3 uses a literal scooter engine for the range extension.

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Re:Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investment... by shadilay on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @06:50PM (#27990777)

The i3 can't do more than 40mph when using the scooter engine.

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Re:Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investment... by chipsa on Monday August 02, 2021 @10:21AM (#28036862)

It can do more than that, especially if you've got the Euro-spec Hold State of Charge coded to be enabled. With HSOC, you just drive as normal and the scooter engine tries to keep the battery at the charge level you turned it on at. You only really notice that the car is noisier.

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Re:Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investment... by namdnay on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @12:27PM (#27985688)

Car engines can weigh up to 1000 pounds, but the standard weight is much lower. the VW group 1.4 turbo (probably one of the most common engines around) comes in at 230lb

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Re:Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investment... by virgilp on Thursday July 29, 2021 @08:10AM (#27995496)

I feel like this is a bit of a double standard.

If we're questioning "focus on range of 400km or more" then we're already looking at the high-end EVs. Sure there are ligther engines around, but so are lighter batteries, no? Heavy powerful ICEs sell because they're desirable, not because they're the most practical. Long-range EVs sell because they're desirable, not because they're the best match for the average person. I have no doubt that as soon as reasonable city infrastructure exists for EV charging, there'll be a lot of BEVs with small batteries for driving around the city.

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Re:Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investment... by forz877 on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @12:08PM (#27985465)

People do not just buy cars for daily commutes, it doesn't make sense to solely design around that.

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Re:Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investment... by cycomanic on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @04:42PM (#27989457)

That's my point exactly, the buy the EV to be dimensioned for the occasional weekend trip, but could often be much better of with a car with EV dimensioned for the daily commute and use ICE for the couple of long trips. This would likely be more cost efficient and ecological.

Don't get me wrong I like EVs, but the current crop's design is not such a straight forward winner in terms of ecological footprint over PHEV as many EV fanboys believe.

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Re:Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investment... by nicoburns on Wednesday July 28, 2021 @11:53AM (#27985282)

It will also change as the grid gets excess green energy.

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