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Re:Japan's cherry blossom: as indisputable as climate change... by monktastic1 on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @04:37PM (#27977295)
I'm not sure I understand. Why deny something that you claim not to know enough about?
Re:Japan's cherry blossom: as indisputable as climate change... by sillysaurusx on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @04:42PM (#27977353)
Heh. Well, since you asked...

There's a distressing pattern: the idea that "man made climate change exists, therefore disaster."

The "disaster" part is the part I've never truly been able to convince myself of. I don't deny it -- you're right, it's more along the lines of agnosticism. But I think it's really easy to convince yourself of doom.

However, striving to be something resembling a scientist, I recognize that being ignorant is no defense. I haven't spent enough time researching the data, looking at the implications, and listening to the arguments. But every time I see a piece like this pop up, I feel this reflexive urge to question people and chase down the logic: Ok, climate change exists. How do you know we need to care?

I'm not saying we don't. I just wish people would admit "We don't really know, but it would be a good idea to take a few precautionary steps" rather than take the stance of "you're something close to Satan if you dare believe otherwise."

Re:Japan's cherry blossom: as indisputable as climate change... by ajnin on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @05:22PM (#27977833)
> How do you know we need to care?

The temperature difference between now and the last ice age, at a time there was 3km of ice over much of the northern hemisphere, and sea level was 120 below current average, was 5°C. Current predictions for the temperature increase in 2100 range from 2°C, if we make a huge effort to quickly and drastically reduce CO2 emissions, to 5°C if we keep going as we are. The reality will be somewhere between, I'll let you decide what you think is likely. We don't know exactly what the consequences are gonna be, but we know they're going to be dramatic, and if you think they won't affect you personally, you're probably wrong.

Re:Japan's cherry blossom: as indisputable as climate change... by pavlov on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @04:57PM (#27977569)
> "I just wish people would admit 'We don't really know, but it would be a good idea to take a few precautionary steps'"

That was a reasonable stance in the 1970s. We have a ton more evidence now.

Re:Japan's cherry blossom: as indisputable as climate change... by RaketenStadt on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @04:48PM (#27977429)
> I’m a climate change denier

> I don't deny it

So, you're not a climate change denier

Re:Japan's cherry blossom: as indisputable as climate change... by mrfusion on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @04:54PM (#27977524)
To be fair, everyone gets put in the denier bucket if they question any part of the narrative. (Disclaimer: I’m not a denier)
Re:Japan's cherry blossom: as indisputable as climate change... by anonAndOn on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @05:21PM (#27977826)
You might be too young to know, but there were some famous holdouts living around Mt. St Helens in 1980.[0] They didn't believe any of the "stupid scientists" knew if the volcano was going to erupt. The holdouts are only famous because they are dead.

[0]https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/05/17/mo...

Re:Japan's cherry blossom: as indisputable as climate change... by monktastic1 on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @05:04PM (#27977648)
I'm still having a hard time with this. You say you don't know, and from that you conclude that nobody else does either?

> I just wish people would admit "We don't really know"

Surely somebody has spent time "researching the data, looking at the implications, and listening to the arguments"? Why are you so sure they should "admit" that they don't really know? Especially when so many have come out and said that they do?

Re:Japan's cherry blossom: as indisputable as climate change... by warent on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @04:43PM (#27977377)
Isn't that the default stance in philosophy? Assume something is false until evidence proven true. You cannot begin with the assumption that something is true, otherwise we're back to the mystical dark ages of magic monsters and alchemy
Re:Japan's cherry blossom: as indisputable as climate change... by genericuser314 on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @05:06PM (#27977667)
Maybe you're thinking of Russell's teapot, which is the idea that the burden of proof lies upon a person making unfalsifiable claims? That's specifically for unfalsifiable claims.

Or maybe you're thinking of the burden of proof concept from jurisprudence? That is a high standard because it keeps innocent people from having their lives destroyed.

The IPCC reports [0], predicated upon the anthropogenic theory of climate change, predict a lot of people will have their lives destroyed, and the theory specifies the mechanism which will determine the magnitude. You and I as agents in democracies (I'm guessing) can help determine that magnitude - maybe whether it's millions of families displaced and destroyed or hundreds of millions.

I think the philosophical stance we should apply is the precautionary principle. If we're unsure of whether or not it is harmful that our activities are changing the composition of our atmosphere, of our oceans, and of our soil, we should at least, as a precaution, reduce the rate at which we're changing our environment.

[0] https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/

Re:Japan's cherry blossom: as indisputable as climate change... by anotherman554 on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @04:58PM (#27977578)
I don't think this is correct. Philosophies vary but philosophy of knowledge deals with how you can know something. The opposite of knowing something isn't assuming it is false.
Re:Japan's cherry blossom: as indisputable as climate change... by vkou on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @04:53PM (#27977510)
> Assume something is false until evidence proven true.

This cuts both ways, depending how your phrase the assumption.

Which of these statements should we assume false, until proven true:

"Doubling the concentration of atmospheric CO2 will not cause meaningful negative impacts on human civilization."

"Doubling the concentration of atmospheric CO2 will cause meaningful negative impacts on human civilization."

Philosophy isn't going to rescue us from this. Climate science will.

Re:Japan's cherry blossom: as indisputable as climate change... by monktastic1 on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @05:03PM (#27977635)
Assuming that something is false isn't the same as denying it.