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Re:The Economic Consequences of Major Tax Cuts for the Rich ... by stdbrouw on Monday July 26, 2021 @01:50PM (#27962618)
I'm not rich and not a proponent of tax cuts for the rich, but there's one bit of insight that ideologically flavored reviews of tax reforms often seem to miss: almost any imaginable (income) tax cut will disproportionally favor the rich in absolute terms, even if proportionally they pay more. For example, even if the only change you make is to drop the rate on the very lowest tax bracket from 10% to 0%, the rich will benefit more than the very poorest because the rich will max out that tax bracket but the poor won't. Therefore, if someone proposes a tax cut and it turns out that it benefits the rich, that doesn't mean they have some nefarious scheme in mind, more likely they genuinely believe that lower taxes help the economy or that a smaller government works better. I'm a bit of a leftie myself, but this is one area where I think it'd be nice to have some mutual understanding between different ideologies.
Re:The Economic Consequences of Major Tax Cuts for the Rich ... by bcrosby95 on Monday July 26, 2021 @02:06PM (#27962872)
The lowest tax bracket in the USA is $9k. That is below the poverty line in the USA at $12k for one person. Most people max out $9k. Even poor people. The rich will never benefit more from a tax cut there than the poor.

Where they do benefit is when you, say, lower every bracket by 2%. But that is fundamentally different from your proposition.

Re:The Economic Consequences of Major Tax Cuts for the Rich ... by tstrimple on Monday July 26, 2021 @02:11PM (#27962966)
This seems like a lot of words to obfuscate the fact that not only do the rich receive the largest benefit of tax breaks, they pay a lower effective tax rate than the middle class. It's not just word games.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/10/08/first-tim...

Re:The Economic Consequences of Major Tax Cuts for the Rich ... by stdbrouw on Monday July 26, 2021 @02:25PM (#27963187)
Well, but that's a very different issue: the rich have an incredible amount of options to optimize their taxes that us mere mortals don't, and can shift their income so that it doesn't incur income taxes. You don't fight that with income tax hikes or by refusing to countenance any and all tax cuts.
Re:The Economic Consequences of Major Tax Cuts for the Rich ... by PaulDavisThe1st on Monday July 26, 2021 @02:33PM (#27963329)
a 95% top marginal rate (say, on income over $1M/yr) would certainly discourage "shifting their income so that it doesn't incur income taxes". Why? Because they'd have less money that they could afford to shift around in that way.
Re:The Economic Consequences of Major Tax Cuts for the Rich ... by stdbrouw on Monday July 26, 2021 @03:00PM (#27963743)
Not sure if you're joking, but... the taxes on your salary are subtracted at source in most countries so there's no way to avoid them no matter how highly you're taxed, but things are quite different when you can decide what to pay yourself in salary vs. what ends up at a company you control vs. what ends up in some kind of trust, and so on and so on.
Re:The Economic Consequences of Major Tax Cuts for the Rich ... by PaulDavisThe1st on Monday July 26, 2021 @03:09PM (#27963880)
I'm not joking at all. We used to have tax rates just like that.

Let's say that you've got a nice little setup for yourself. $1.5M/yr in personal income, with another US$8M or so flowing into things you indirectly (in time or space) will benefit from.

Now let's bump up the top marginal rate to 95% on amounts over $1M. You're personal income is reduced by an amount on the order of $400-500k per year. You're not likely to just accept that, and live on less. Instead, you're going to rearrange things so that you're back to the same "take home" personal income, while the "diversions that benefit you" drop a corresponding amount.

Re:The Economic Consequences of Major Tax Cuts for the Rich ... by stdbrouw on Monday July 26, 2021 @04:10PM (#27964759)
It'd be an interesting experiment :-)
Re:The Economic Consequences of Major Tax Cuts for the Rich ... by laverya on Monday July 26, 2021 @10:08PM (#27967816)
I'm not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse, but we did run that experiment, here in the US. It played out pretty much like the GP suggested.
Re:The Economic Consequences of Major Tax Cuts for the Rich ... by stdbrouw on Tuesday July 27, 2021 @04:30AM (#27970009)
It did? The paper under discussion doesn't really give an answer and first paper I can find that does, about the 1986 tax reform (admittedly it's not about the 1964 reform when top rates were even higher), states that "The estimated sensitivity implies that a change in income tax rates has substantially less impact on tax revenue than would be true if there were no behavioral response to marginal tax rates. This sensitivity of taxable income also implies that high marginal tax rates create significant deadweight losses by inducing taxpayers to act differently than they otherwise would.'" But I have no skin in this game and I'm not being obtuse, happy to learn more.
Re:The Economic Consequences of Major Tax Cuts for the Rich ... by jimbilly22 on Monday July 26, 2021 @02:11PM (#27962957)
yea. they media knows exactly what they are doing when they zero on those metrics. It's part of a larger ideological push. It's extremely disingenuous.
Re:The Economic Consequences of Major Tax Cuts for the Rich ... by stdbrouw on Monday July 26, 2021 @02:22PM (#27963142)
I don't necessarily find it disingenuous because at the end of the day the result is that the rich do in fact benefit most, and there's nothing wrong with reporting this. But I agree that it is rather silly that this is sometimes seen as a shocking revelation when it's really just how tax cuts work.