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Re:Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and... by dane-pgp on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @09:28PM (#27914304)
> Amazon draws a lot of profit (presumably) from millions of cheap plastic objects from overseas which will break and end up in landfills in some poor country.

So you're saying he's found a way to make carbon sequestration profitable at scale? Maybe he is a hero.

Re:Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and... by TaylorAlexander on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @10:23PM (#27914570)
It sounds like you might be joking, but no the plastic does not come from carbon removed from the air. We remove it from the ground as oil, turn it in to plastic, ship it overseas in carbon polluting container ships, transport each item to an end customer, and then transport them to the landfill where they will persist for generations.

So no, I am not saying that.

Re:Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and... by dane-pgp on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @10:37PM (#27914652)
I was half joking, so let me try to make the serious case here.

By purchasing oil to turn into plastics, manufacturers are in competition with buyers who intend to simply burn their oil-derived products (fuels). This increased competition must cause some (small) increase in the price of oil that has to be paid by the oil burners, making it marginally less economically competitive in comparison to renewable energy sources.

The effect might be negligible, and I obviously haven't modelled whether this leads to a significant reduction in oil burning (especially relative to the carbon pollution of the container ships, as you say), but it is an interesting thought experiment.

Re:Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and... by cartoonworld on Thursday July 22, 2021 @10:25PM (#27926550)
Joke acknowledged :)

but...

The oil isn't turned into plastic[0], the petrochemicals used in plastic don't compete with fuel, it is a byproduct of the oil extraction and fracturing process[1] mostly from the lighter natural gas components I believe. The effect is likely the opposite of what you imagine it to be in your example.

Keep in mind that the price of fuel isn't the same as the price of crude, as the fuel is a separate commodity whose production is tied to refinement of crude, which is the primary commodity.

In fact, using this industrial byproduct to create plastic will reduce the cost of oil extraction. The transportation of the packaged good which are enabled by this ubiquitous packaging technology will now drive demand for transportation, in turn raising the price again. The cheapening of fuel and plastic packaged goods incentivizes further usage and investment, and so the wheels turn on ...

It gets much more complicated from there and also involves some missiles and ground-based radar systems.

[0] - https://inbound.teamppi.com/blog/oil-to-plastic-a-lesson-on-...

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene

Re:Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and... by TaylorAlexander on Thursday July 22, 2021 @03:04AM (#27916258)
It does seem a rather roundabout way to find a silver lining.
Re:Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and... by cartoonworld on Wednesday July 21, 2021 @10:30PM (#27914615)
Plastic does not sequester carbon.

However, if there were a bioplastic that did not degrade or a process to reclaim atmospheric co2 into plastic stock, it would be a great way to sequester carbon so long as it does not break down and is piled up somewhere forever.