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Re:When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disint... by smt88 on Sunday July 18, 2021 @10:49AM (#27873404)
The problem is that you can't differentiate between "stupid" and "justifiably ignorant" or just "scarred by history".

Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again.

And then you just have millions of people who don't know basic biology or medicine, and vaccines are no more fathomable than magic.

Add lots of misinfo from Facebook to that mess, and you have people who can't always be blamed for their fear.

Re:When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disint... by kcplate on Sunday July 18, 2021 @12:27PM (#27874203)
All I know is that if I was black, I’d have be damn distrustful considering the history of experimentation—especially when news came out last year that some folks at the CDC were advocating prioritizing the delivery of the “non-fda approved, experimental and rapidly developed” vaccine on people of color because “anti-racism.”

Not saying that the sentiment wasn’t genuine, but damn that is some poor optics considering the history.

Re:When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disint... by gdulli on Sunday July 18, 2021 @11:46AM (#27873887)
> millions of people who don't know basic biology or medicine, and vaccines are no more fathomable than magic.

But you could say the same about most things that most people do every day.

Nobody needs to become an amateur biologist.

But everyone needs to have the self awareness to step back and realize that vaccines are one of a hundred things they do that they don't have the expertise to build or explain, and that the only reason they're hesitant about this one is because they've been drawn into a culture war about it.

Whereas the rest of life that's equally unfathomable, we do it without controversy because nobody's found the value in making us pawns over it.

Re:When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disint... by joezydeco on Sunday July 18, 2021 @12:30PM (#27874221)
They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again

I sympathize with that statement, and maybe this is just semantics, but did we ask Black people to receive the vaccine first?

Everybody has equal access.

Re:When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disint... by JumpCrisscross on Sunday July 18, 2021 @11:22AM (#27873665)
> Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs. They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again.

This is the only sympathetic group out of the bunch. (Lots of people are ignorant of a lot of things for lots of reasons, sometimes at great cost. Those costs are generally theirs to carry.)

Practically, however, that sympathy has limits. Should we shut down New York again because those who refuse to get vaccinated will die? Would there be the political will to?

Re:When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disint... by postoak on Sunday July 18, 2021 @11:42AM (#27873840)
Although I think covid vaccine hesitancy is dumb at this point (yet don't think you can punish hesitant people) - Why should only those groups be hesitant? Anyone who can read history can see that happened even if it didn't affect their relatives. The government isn't known for being very effective or trustworthy lately, why should people think their incompetence/malice should be limited to those groups? Plenty of people of all races were attacked by the police last year during peaceful protests. Biden went on to lump protestors with anarchists as well as called doubt on Trump-led vaccines.
Re:When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disint... by JumpCrisscross on Sunday July 18, 2021 @11:55AM (#27873958)
> Why should only those groups be hesitant?

They shouldn’t. But there is daylight between the government having done something unfavourable to a group you identify with and it having abused the specific thing you’re being asked to do (saying you’re being vaccinated while administering a disease).

I agree the precedent exists for all Americans. That’s scary. But “the government has done bad things” isn’t a valid excuse for ignoring the other evidence. (I don’t give Black Americans a free pass on non-vaccination. I just sympathise with the hesitance.)

Re:When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disint... by perl4ever on Monday July 19, 2021 @11:23PM (#27889763)
>Black people were literally experimented on under the guise of vaccination programs.

There's been a lot of stories and allegations about vaccination programs in Pakistan in the 21st century, in relation to attempts to find Osama Bin Laden. That they were fake, and/or covertly collecting DNA for the CIA.

Is this a valid reason for all Americans to be suspicious of vaccines or at least not to blame them?

Re:When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disint... by vmception on Sunday July 18, 2021 @11:13AM (#27873595)
> the rest of us shouldn’t have to (a) shut down our lives or (b) pay tax dollars to save you if you end up in the hospital or deal with the costs of long Covid

still remains true and you didn’t present a counterpoint to that

Re:When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disint... by smt88 on Sunday July 18, 2021 @12:23PM (#27874178)
Would you say the same thing about abortions? Just because a child was taught that contraception is evil, we shouldn't have to pay for her abortion?
Re:When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disint... by vmception on Sunday July 18, 2021 @10:09PM (#27878545)
This example doesn't disrupt anybody else’s life, limiting the similarity only to b) which I don't have an opinion about in isolation

both a) and b) have to be satisfied for me to care enough to dissect the similarities and offer an opinion

I’ve come to understand your example is a topic a lot of people care passionately about though. That’s interesting.

Re:When Vaccine Apathy, Not Hesitancy, Drives Vaccine Disint... by shrimp_emoji on Sunday July 18, 2021 @11:52AM (#27873934)
>They have no reason to believe that isn't going to happen again.

Come on.

In this case, too, anti-vaxxerism is due to a lack of education.

Whatever we do, we need to improve education, or we're going to continue paying for the consequences of not having enough of it.