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Re:My take on the study from MIT that predicts “societal col... by XorNot on Thursday July 15, 2021 @07:36PM (#27851361)
That's making a rather broad claim from a rather specific one, even if the adherents have a lot of ideological overlap.

Peak Oil was predicting a very real phenomenon, but it hasn't happened yet (oil, being finite, will have this happen eventually).

Re:My take on the study from MIT that predicts “societal col... by CommieBobDole on Thursday July 15, 2021 @07:50PM (#27851506)
Peak Oil, in the very narrow sense of there being a point of maximum oil production before it starts declining as what remains becomes harder and thereby more expensive to extract, will probably happen eventually.

The broader hypothesized 'Peak Oil' phenomenon wherein the decline in oil production causes enormous societal upheaval and possibly the collapse of industrial civilization will almost certainly not happen, because as it turns out the reserves of relatively easy to extract oil are pretty large, plus a large amount of additional reserves (shale, tar sands, etc) become economical to extract at a relatively small increase in price. Add in the fact that electric cars will probably do away with most of the market for oil over the next couple of decades, and it's likely that, by the time we run out of oil, it will have been used only as an input for various industrial processes for a couple of centuries.

And of course, this was the same argument used against the 'Peak Oil' idea when it was a big thing, it's just come into better focus with the passage of time.

Re:My take on the study from MIT that predicts “societal col... by jcranmer on Thursday July 15, 2021 @08:57PM (#27851955)
> Peak Oil was predicting a very real phenomenon, but it hasn't happened yet (oil, being finite, will have this happen eventually).

That's true only if you define Peak Oil so unusually as to make it true. The concept behind Peak Oil is that in the (near [1]) future, the available supply of oil will fail to meet the total demand for it, and then we'll be stuck in a world where there is forever an inability to get the necessary oil. In this model, it's great to be an oil supermajor holding one of the last great reserves of oil--you can basically charge what you want for it, and so it's worth spending hundreds of billions of dollars to get it.

An alternative model for the future is that the demand for oil peaks before the supply is. In this model, that same oil supermajor is now in a terrible position, and shelling out hundred of billions of dollars for new reserves is a stupid idea. In essence, from a planning perspective, this is the exact opposite of what Peak Oil predicts.

The current trends seem to indicate that it's the second scenario that is going to come true, not the former situation. Combined with the fact that more specific predictions about when it will happen have continuously failed to come true, it's hard to find much about Peak Oil thati sactually correct.

[1] The imminence of the catastrophe of peak oil is usually highlighted by its prophets, but it has been generally less assumed by planners working under its assumption, so it's debatable to what degree the imminence is a critical prediction of the theory. Whatever the case, nearly every single prediction of when the peak would occur has already been passed without that peak having happened.

Re:My take on the study from MIT that predicts “societal col... by lmm on Friday July 16, 2021 @12:30AM (#27853065)
AIUI US oil production actually did peak at more or less the originally predicted time, and the 1970s oil crisis was a reflection of that. Obviously it didn't result in the total collapse of civilisation, but it wasn't totally insignificant either.
Re:My take on the study from MIT that predicts “societal col... by snowwrestler on Friday July 16, 2021 @01:26AM (#27853273)
U.S. oil production has gone up so much since the 1970s that in 2015 Congress removed the crude oil export ban they put in place in 1975.
Re:My take on the study from MIT that predicts “societal col... by jacobr1 on Thursday July 15, 2021 @07:57PM (#27851563)
The problem with most these malthusian style analyses is a presumption of a first-order system within their models. Human society is more able to adapt than deer herds, between both social changes and technology with second and third order effects.

Peak oil, is correct is some sort of technical sense, but continues to be consistently misforecast due to underestimating both technical innovation and exploration. Cost-effective reserves grew much faster than depletion, and now we also have alternatives and increased efficiencies that have reduced/flatlined consumption even as feasible capacity continues to increase. That doesn't mean there isn't some finite limit (and even if there wasn't, that we wouldn't want to limit CO2 regardless) but that the modeling process is just too simple.

Re:My take on the study from MIT that predicts “societal col... by dane-pgp on Thursday July 15, 2021 @07:46PM (#27851460)
> but it hasn't happened yet

To provide some context, I think it is worth quoting this article[0] from February:

> In a Thursday statement, the fossil fuel giant [Shell] said its “oil production peaked in 2019,” and that we can now expect it to decline gradually by 1 or 2% per year. Shell also said its total carbon emissions peaked in 2018 at 1.7 gigatonnes.

[0] https://gizmodo.com/shell-says-it-has-reached-peak-oil-produ...

Re:My take on the study from MIT that predicts “societal col... by schimmy_changa on Thursday July 15, 2021 @07:53PM (#27851528)
Yes, but the term 'Peak Oil' implies the catastrophic and sudden crash in the availability of oil, not in the slow decrease in production due to alternatives. (Don't get me wrong, I'd like production to decline much faster for climate reasons!)

The 'Peak Oil' hypothesis was that all the wells would run dry without good alternatives and society would be trapped between a rock and a hard place because of that. Again, not necessarily for better, humans figured out more technologically advanced ways to extract oil to avoid this outcome (fracking and tar sands).

Re:My take on the study from MIT that predicts “societal col... by XorNot on Thursday July 15, 2021 @11:02PM (#27852645)
> The 'Peak Oil' hypothesis was that all the wells would run dry without good alternatives

This was literally never it. Peak Oil never had anything to say about the pumping capacity of oil, it was about the expansion of supply relative to demand.

That "preppers" decided this meant immediate societal collapse is there and your problem with comprehension.

Re:My take on the study from MIT that predicts “societal col... by wussboy on Thursday July 15, 2021 @09:06PM (#27852018)
I hear you, and I regret that the Environmental movement feels the need to ratchet everything up to a catastrophe. But surely if “peak” means anything it means that we used to grow, now we contract, and therefore peak oil has already occurred.