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A comment on Night of the Guillotine: The Fall of Robespierre. Parent comment

Re:Night of the Guillotine: The Fall of Robespierre by nescioquid on Tuesday July 13, 2021 @06:27PM (#27827025)
Some 80 or so years prior to Caesar's assassination, a consul fomented a mob to kill a Tribune (G. Gracchus) who was pushing hard for land reforms. Historians often cite this as laying the foundation for the Roman revolution because it normalized violence as a political tool. It was followed by proscriptions and the Catilinarian conspiracy in 63 BCE.

What if Octavius never traveled to Hispania? Caesar may well have still adopted his nephew in order to make him his beneficiary. What would have happened if there were no Octavius? Possibly Marcus Antonius would have consolidated power.

Would we have no transistors today if Shockley hadn't worked at Bell Labs?

I guess my viewpoint strongly biases me towards seeing continuity and underlying processes. For every tipping point, there was a pre-existing process; for every process an event you can treat as a "handle".

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Re:Night of the Guillotine: The Fall of Robespierre by mbg721 on Tuesday July 13, 2021 @09:50PM (#27828636)
What's your take on Catiline? I have just enough classical education to be a little dangerous, but my understanding is that he's sort of seen as a would-be Julius Caesar who showed up at the wrong time; Cicero was horrified by them both, but his conservative faction eventually lost so much power in the Senate that Caesar succeeded where Catiline failed.
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Re:Night of the Guillotine: The Fall of Robespierre by nescioquid on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @12:19AM (#27829684)
I can see that. Both Caesar and Catiline sought power through extra-constitutional means. Caesar surely took notes (and Cicero thought Caesar even secretly supported Catiline). They were all in the senate together under Cicero's consulship, after all.

They were all hyper-ambitious patricians. The conservatives (optimates -- the best) regarded the populares (the faction Caesar aligned himself with) as people willing to threaten the order of the state by pandering to the masses. This is what Catiline did, and Caesar too. This was the basic threat that the Gracchi brothers appeared to present in agitating for land reform and something that underscored Caesar's political agenda (he had to find land for his loyal veterans).

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Re:Night of the Guillotine: The Fall of Robespierre by refenestrator on Tuesday July 13, 2021 @11:54PM (#27829541)
I agree with your main point here but anyone who thinks violence as a political tool needed normalizing should not be listened to.
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Re:Night of the Guillotine: The Fall of Robespierre by boomboomsubban on Wednesday July 14, 2021 @01:52AM (#27830090)
They're saying violence being normalized was a necessary step for the foundation of the empire. There's no moral judgment there, saying they should not be listened to would not change what happened.
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