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Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by alentist on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:25PM (#27813407)
> fleeing on boats is really not uncommon

To escape a country, or to enter a country? The example you gave is the latter. Do you have any examples of the former?

Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by sudosysgen on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:33PM (#27813490)
If you were ever in such a situation, you'd know that by far the biggest limiting factor is actually the cost of the plane ticket and the visa. There isn't much of a distinction between both. Cuba fully ended exit visas 8 years ago.
Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by alentist on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:56PM (#27813704)
That doesn't answer the question, which is about emigration illegality being "not uncommon".
Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by sudosysgen on Monday July 12, 2021 @06:52PM (#27816017)
Emigration is legal for 99% of Cubans though. The issue is that the cost of emigrating is more than a years salary.
Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by alentist on Tuesday July 13, 2021 @01:29AM (#27817858)
> Emigration is legal for 99% of Cubans though.

Do you have a source for that? This [0] suggests otherwise.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27813742

Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by pjc50 on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:32PM (#27813483)
... how do you propose escaping without then entering somewhere else? Same thing, surely?
Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by AnimalMuppet on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:45PM (#27813595)
Except for motive.

Consider the saying "People don't leave jobs, they leave bosses." Sure, you're getting a new job, not just leaving an old one. But what they're really doing is leaving that jerk of a boss.

In the same way, you can be "going to America", or you can be "escaping from Cuba". Same thing in terms of actions, but not at all the same in terms of motive.

Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by sudosysgen on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:47PM (#27813609)
I don't exactly follow. When my family emigrated from an impoverished North African nation, we were escaping poverty and dysfunction just as much as we were going to richer countries.
Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by AnimalMuppet on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:32PM (#27814049)
Sure, it can be both at once. But it doesn't have to be.

Let's say I'm in Venezuela, and I'm tired of the "Maduro diet", i.e., borderline starvation. I'll go to Colombia or Brazil, or Guyana. Or I'll go through Colombia to Panama or Peru or Ecuador. Any of the above. I'm leaving Venezuela more than I'm going to somewhere.

In contrast, consider the caravans that show up at the southern US border. They're often from Honduras. But the people in them didn't stop at Guatemala or Belize or Mexico. No, they're coming to the US, not just leaving Honduras.

Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by sudosysgen on Monday July 12, 2021 @04:02PM (#27814397)
I really don't follow. The incentive is the same. You want to go from a poorer place to a richer place. You obviously don't want to go to a place where your economic situation won't improve.
Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by alentist on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:54PM (#27813681)
> Same thing, surely?

No, not the same thing at all. Forcibly stopping your citizens from leaving your country altogether is not the same thing as another country stopping them from entering theirs.

Communist countries have historically implemented strict emigration policies [0]. For example, East Germany famously had a policy of mass-murdering citizens who tried to escape to the West [1].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emigration_from_the_Eastern_Bl...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schießbefehl

Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by sudosysgen on Monday July 12, 2021 @02:55PM (#27813695)
Cuba is not stopping anyone from leaving for a while, but yes this was a policy during the Castro era.
Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by alentist on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:00PM (#27813742)
> Cuba is not stopping anyone from leaving

That's a step in the right direction, if true. Do you have a source for it? This older article [0] says:

President Raul Castro said the regime will still decide who can renew or obtain passports. The government will protect "human capital" in its decision-making, and travel can be denied for "national security reasons."

Those deemed necessary to the Cuba socialist revolution — professionals such as doctors, scientists and engineers — can be prevented from departing. The "national security" clause worries some opposition figures.

[0] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2012/11/11/cuba-ex...

Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by sudosysgen on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:24PM (#27813967)
Yes, that is it. It is certainly not perfect yet, but controls on who can obtain passports are sadly the norm in the entire world. And indeed the price of the plane ticket stays the most significant hurdle.
Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by alentist on Monday July 12, 2021 @05:20PM (#27815278)
> It is certainly not perfect

That's an understatement.

> controls on who can obtain passports are sadly the norm in the entire world

These restrictions are far from "the norm in the entire world".

Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by sudosysgen on Monday July 12, 2021 @06:43PM (#27815968)
Actually, not granting passports to people that are in dire need economically is fairly common, South Korea does it for example and so do a few African countries. Crucially it's not as bad as the previous system because you know of this complication before you make the choice of studying for these professions. It really sucks, but sadly it's more common than it should be.
Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by alentist on Tuesday July 13, 2021 @01:31AM (#27817865)
> fairly common, South Korea does it for example and so do a few African countries

Source? To prevent goalpost-moving, the restrictions we're referring to are:

The government will protect "human capital" in its decision-making, and travel can be denied for "national security reasons." Those deemed necessary to the Cuba socialist revolution — professionals such as doctors, scientists and engineers — can be prevented from departing.

Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by toomuchtodo on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:11PM (#27813835)
It also appears that a Cuban passport is ~5 months of salary for a Cuban, which is a limiting factor in expatriating. I would be curious what a crowdsourced effort to fund passports and travel out of Cuba does to the government's posture and position on Cuban's leaving the country.
Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by sudosysgen on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:21PM (#27813923)
It would probably end similar to the Mariel Boatlift : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariel_boatlift
Re:Internet outages in Cuba following widespread anti-govern... by toomuchtodo on Monday July 12, 2021 @03:24PM (#27813955)
TIL, thanks for the link.