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Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by ideamotor on Saturday July 10, 2021 @02:23AM (#27791533)
Interruptions are very challenging with any deep work that takes hours. This is true.

What I am facing however, is a related issue. Perhaps because I have not been doing much programming lately, I find it increasingly difficult to actually get and be in the zone. When I go in, I go all in, and enter a kind of fugue state where the hours slip away. While for some this may sound advantageous, in the past, it has been associated with some bad physical and psychological health outcomes. Now, I actually have anxiety about going into such a state, and try to piece meal my problems, and focus on the non-programming work and thinking.

Situations change, and I am about to be in one where I do really need to perform a lot of coding myself. I suppose I am answering my own question, but I need to split up my work and take notes to reduce the numbers of abstracted layers upon which I am working. Take more breaks with confidence I can return.

I suspect this technique can help ease the burdens of interruptions as well, but it does come at a cost in time. For me, the severe crunch time requirements and gained insane last minute skills should still be less necessary for some time. This is likely called being in a startup and getting older and, well, recognizing long-term limitations.

Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by mtsr on Saturday July 10, 2021 @06:39AM (#27792484)
I would recommend trying the pomodoro method: 25 minutes of work, 5 minute break away from screens, repeat. 30 minute break after a few cycles.

I’ve discovered I’m much more in touch with my mental and emotional state and even a five minute break will really relieve some of the pressure you put on your mind and body. Also because it’s just for 25 minutes anyway, it’s much easier to get started again, even with unfun work.

Edit: In case you’re worried this will make things worse, because of the regular interruption, I’ve found it to not be so bad with the exception of some types of debugging. The mind is pretty good at mulling over the problem while you’re taking a break and often I’m more effective afterwards. But the 25/5 isn’t a hard requirement and should be changed depending on preference and type of work.

Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by john-tells-all on Monday July 12, 2021 @11:49AM (#27811493)
Seconded. Pomodoro is wonderful for engineers: it rapidly teaches us to build up a "focus muscle". We start focusing at the beginning of a 25 min cycle, and consciously relax the focus at the end. If I walk around for 5 minutes and do low-impact things like dishes/laundry it helps.

My channel has a short talk recommending Pomodoro for engineers, including using it with Agile. The methods are extremely similar. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0PGaH-sVPGIdFUC88FgMmw

Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by the_other on Saturday July 10, 2021 @07:39AM (#27792692)
I used to use an app that had both a timer and a notepad. It was helpful for sketching out pointers to where I’d reached. A quick scan before restarting the next 25min, especially after a meeting or lunch, was very helpful. Being in the same app helped connect it to each session.
Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by james-skemp on Saturday July 10, 2021 @10:01AM (#27793399)
Do you recall the name of it?

Starting a new job and that may finally be enough of a change to trigger me actually trying this after all these years of hearing about it.

Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by the_other on Saturday July 10, 2021 @02:31PM (#27795420)
Vitamin-R. It was Mac only, I think.
Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by james-skemp on Saturday July 10, 2021 @08:57PM (#27797664)
Thanks for the reply!
Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by ideamotor on Sunday July 11, 2021 @02:21AM (#27798824)
Thanks
Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by smcl on Saturday July 10, 2021 @10:06AM (#27793422)
Yeah good point. I think it's also different since the interruption is on your own terms - you've deliberately given yourself 5 minutes break from some task so that you be more focused over the lifetime of that task. You're (hopefully) not getting other tasks thrown at you which can take up precious mental resources or destroy context you've been slowly building up in your head.
Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by pksebben on Saturday July 10, 2021 @02:21PM (#27795343)
I use pomodoros religiously, and you touched on one of the few gotchas of the technique; Never use your break to attend to other work, unless it's thoughtless. Can't say how many times I've lost the thread and been kicking myself because of mixed contexts.
Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by abnercoimbre on Saturday July 10, 2021 @03:18AM (#27791715)
Are you saying getting into that "in the zone" state affected your mental health. Interesting. Any examples of the side effects? Is it hard to put into words?
Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by itronitron on Saturday July 10, 2021 @05:14AM (#27792187)
I find that I have to put myself in a state of deep dissatisfaction in order to develop the motivation to dive in. If I get interrupted before accomplishing anything then I'll remain in a bad mood. And if I think I am going to be interrupted then I won't even start the first dissatisfaction step because I don't want to be stopped halfway. One workaround for that is to define the work in smaller pieces so that interruptions are less likely, but that also takes work.

I'm reminded of a scene from the movie 'Never Cry Wolf' where the bush pilot, while flying the plane, puts himself into a state of rage before stepping outside to fix the problem.

https://youtu.be/9i90_-HpVz0?t=120

Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by vjdingdong on Saturday July 10, 2021 @09:33AM (#27793253)
Looks like you discovered where your motivation knob is, and come to think of it, being dis-satisfied with something is a very common, and rational way to be motivated.
Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by pedro2 on Saturday July 10, 2021 @03:54AM (#27791892)
My guess would be he felt depleted emotionally and psychologically after spending too much time working.

Like when you need to spend some time in a dark silent room before filling like having fun or do house chores or do the cooking.

Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by abnercoimbre on Saturday July 10, 2021 @08:09PM (#27797394)
> Like when you need to spend some time in a dark silent room

That resonated, and it's the best example for me to come to grips with this.

Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by random_kris on Saturday July 10, 2021 @04:49AM (#27792087)
Yeah this happens for me as well. I can feel the high of being productive but now as I gained expirience I also feel the dread of next day being almost like hungover
Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by ideamotor on Sunday July 11, 2021 @02:25AM (#27798837)
No it was from being in the zone, which eventually caused me anxiety about doing it. I would spend 10-12 hours getting a major project done, barely taking a break. Wrist issues, back issues, and a kind of agoraphobia afterwards if I was in too long that accumulated with lack of sleep as well.
Re:Programmers, teach non-geeks the true cost of interruptio... by vjdingdong on Saturday July 10, 2021 @09:31AM (#27793239)
> gained insane last minute skills

Nice way to put it.