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Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by mdoms on Thursday July 08, 2021 @04:12AM (#27769409)
> Blockchains and crypto tech does seem to provide solutions to many challenging problems: distributed ledgers, immutable and decentralized data, ownerless contracts and program execution, secure and decentralized ownership of a digital asset

None of these are real problems. Each and every one was invented as a problem as a post hoc rationalisation for Blockchain technologies.

Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by mattdesl on Thursday July 08, 2021 @04:21AM (#27769460)
The same could be said for many problems in computer science and on the web: these were not problems humans were trying to solve before computers.

Blockchains give us new paradigms (such as ownerless & distributed program execution) that most of us weren’t thinking about before it was achievable.

Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by mdoms on Thursday July 08, 2021 @04:25AM (#27769485)
And what has that given us, tangibly?
Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by hvidgaard on Thursday July 08, 2021 @04:19AM (#27769444)
Many of mans greatest inventions have started like this. Just because we are not aware of a problem today, does not mean it is not there, will not come, or that it can be solved efficiently in other ways.
Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by skohan on Thursday July 08, 2021 @04:20AM (#27769454)
Blockchain is quite old at this point by technology standards, no? In 2017 there was a ton of attention and funding going into the space - it's not as if there hasn't been the opportunity to do something interesting with blockchain.
Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by bhawks on Thursday July 08, 2021 @04:41AM (#27769577)
The fine article and your comment both say crypto is 'old' tech. TFA points to iPhone's 2007 release date as if no one (even apple themselves had tried to crack the personal digital assistant before). Which is a laughable omission of history. The first PDA landed in the 80s. Apple started development in 87 on the newton and didn't have a product til 93. The iphone stands on the ashes of 2 decades of product and engineering iterations. The AI winter lasted from 80s until the 2010s. Technology takes time and innovation is a discrete not continuous function. If we all gave up after 10 years we would be sitting in caves and probably not even planting seeds.

TFA is full of blustery arguments to say that crypto is a worthless dead end and should be banned deserves more reasoned arguments. Toning down the emotional levels might be a good first step.

Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by skohan on Thursday July 08, 2021 @04:54AM (#27769632)
I don't think you should conflate my comment with the TFA article. I didn't write it, and I have no interest in defending it's points.

But I don't totally understand your comparison of early PDA's to the current state of cryptocurrency. Palm pilots were a successful product in their day. Blackberries were hugely successful. It's not as if the iPhone was the first example of value being created in this space.

As far as blockchain, from what I can tell, the only value its creating so far is for drug dealers, those executing ransomware attacks, and people running cryptocurrency exchanges.

I'm not ruling out the idea that someone will find an interesting use-case for cryptocurrency in the future. But what seems a bit strange to me is that cryptocurrency advocates seem to want us all to give a ton of attention and investment towards this space which so far has produced nothing of value. It seems to me that the rational standpoint will be to ignore it until someone can actually demonstrate the "potential" which has been promised for so many years now.

Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by mdoms on Thursday July 08, 2021 @04:22AM (#27769466)
Can you name such a technology that existed for well over a decade before any real use cases were found?
Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by creshal on Thursday July 08, 2021 @04:30AM (#27769513)
LASER, back when it was still written in all caps. It was called "the most useless invention of the century" for a while, and it took close to a decade to figure a use for it.

But I think the whole discussion is missing the point. Blockchain is mostly not trying to be a solution to engineering problems, but societal, "how do we do X without a trustworthy party involved". We already know how to do any given X with someone trustworthy involved.

And, fundamentally, that's how society works, no matter how much anarchists wish it didn't. It's almost always possible to agree to some party to be in charge, making blockchain mostly pointless, no matter how much money is poured in the technical details.

Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by skohan on Thursday July 08, 2021 @04:37AM (#27769554)
But this is a totally abstract argument. Can you point to a tangible example of blockchain being used to solve a real societal problem, in a way which is competitive with other, more conventional solutions?
Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by creshal on Thursday July 08, 2021 @04:41AM (#27769579)
I can't. That's why I'm saying it's the real problem, not the engineering side.
Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by neolog on Thursday July 08, 2021 @05:23AM (#27769803)
The "Git" application is a blockchain for decentralized management of the Linux kernel source code.

The "Bitcoin" application is a tool useful for buying and selling recreational drugs without exposure to the physical risk posed by cash transactions. Edit: That is, the physical/financial risk posed to you by the other party or third-party robbers. Legal risk is probably also reduced: law-enforcement deanonymization attacks seem much less frequent than busting people with drugs on the street.

Blockchain-based markets in general enable transactions without revealing personally identifying information to the counterparty or platform while circumventing regulatory restrictions on conventional transactions.

Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by creshal on Thursday July 08, 2021 @05:49AM (#27769965)
Git is not a blockchain, there's no distributed consensus algorithm. The consensus on what's the main branch and what's the authoritative history lies with Linus Torvalds.

> The "Bitcoin" application is a tool useful for buying and selling recreational drugs without exposure to the physical risk posed by cash transactions.

It hasn't been since at least 2018; authorities regularly seize millions worth of bitcoins together with drug dealers, and have been openly bragging about their de-anonymization successes as early as 2019.

Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by neolog on Thursday July 08, 2021 @06:01AM (#27770049)
clarified above, I mean interparty violence, not legal threat

> what's the authoritative history lies with Linus Torvalds.

I agree with your point about distributed consensus in general, but there isn't really a single authoritative history of linux, there are tons of important forks simultaneously maintained.

As for deanonymization, that doesn't seem to be very common. Compare to the rate at which people get busted by street cops for buying drugs.

Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by creshal on Thursday July 08, 2021 @06:28AM (#27770217)
> I agree with your point about distributed consensus in general, but there isn't really a single authoritative history of linux, there are tons of important forks simultaneously maintained.

What does that have to do with blockchain? Is bittorrent to you "blockchain for downloads" just because it's decentralized and has hashes?

Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by neolog on Thursday July 08, 2021 @06:49PM (#27778583)
I've changed my mind after reading https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockchain#Structure
Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by skohan on Thursday July 08, 2021 @05:26AM (#27769823)
Git isn't a blockchain.
Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by neolog on Thursday July 08, 2021 @05:27AM (#27769827)
Re:The Non-Innovation of Cryptocurrency by skohan on Thursday July 08, 2021 @05:31AM (#27769857)
> The blockchain was invented by a person (or group of people) using the name Satoshi Nakamoto in 2008

> Git was created by Linus Torvalds in 2005 for development of the Linux kernel

They use similar data structures, but blockchain is more than a Merkel tree, it also includes a consensus algorithm.