Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by tylersmith on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @09:53PM
(#27756523)
Nobody is claiming to be selling stock in companies. They're claiming to be, and are, selling synthetic assets that track that price movements of stock.
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by klipt on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @10:05PM
(#27756593)
How is that different to a bucket shop? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucket_shop_(stock_market)
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by tylersmith on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @10:14PM
(#27756648)
It's not really. They're transparent, auditable, and typically they're designed to use over-collateralization to prevent liquidity problems, but they're not 100% immune to them and still count as bucket shops IMO.
But they're absolutely not fraud or "fake stocks".
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by trainsplanes on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @10:21PM
(#27756691)
According to the Wikipedia link, bucket shops are illegal gambling.
So if what this is doing isn't any different than a bucket shop... I think we'll see the same outcome.
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by 55555 on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:16AM
(#27757305)
Are they illegal everywhere though?
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by tim333 on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @02:24PM
(#27764238)
The spread betting companies in the UK work very much like bucket shops and are not only legal but tax free. Unlike these blockchain things they are regulated and unlikely to run off with your money.
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by tylersmith on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @11:25PM
(#27757010)
Yes I think that's very likely. The closer DeFi gets to traditional markets the more likely enforcement is coming.
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by sneak on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:06AM
(#27757238)
What are some possible enforcement mechanisms against Ethereum DeFi smart contracts?
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by as_i_fall on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @10:59AM
(#27761889)
I imagine very few people would be interested in smart contracts if it became a defacto legal standard in the US and Europe that these contracts are unenforceable.
Of course this doesn't address contracts being written out of Russia or traditional financial havens, but how valuable is a vehicle which can't be used to move assets into or within the US or Europe?
I think the question of enforcement is the wrong one.
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by sneak on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @01:35PM
(#27763719)
Smart contracts are already unenforceable via the existing legal system. It's the blockchain that enforces them, and it will continue to do that regardless of their legal status.
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by ohgodplsno on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @02:28AM
(#27758023)
The greater Ethereum community accepts to put restrictions into place, or the US/EU/China puts sanctions on Eth owners and traders. You get to either move to Sealand, or accept restrictions.
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by cinquemb on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @03:04AM
(#27758227)
I'd love to see the DoD/CCP conduct a metadata drone strike agaisnt addresses that were generated for a specific transaction x seconds ago, correlated with some IP addr correlated with some location that ended up being a server running in supply closet on one of their military bases.
Esp for chain running evm compatible contracts that are more scalable than ethereum and can have millions of ephemeral validator nodes.
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by beambot on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @10:07PM
(#27756606)
Forward contacts and SPVs are two ways of encumbering share ownership without (necessarily) conferring all the rights of the underlying shares.
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by as_i_fall on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @09:45AM
(#27761051)
Sure, but those are backed by different legally binding contracts which also give legal recourse to buyers. My point is that unlike other types of synthetic assets these seem to have no legal backing and could quite conceivably be regulated out of existence in the future.
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by anm89 on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:00PM
(#27762601)
No one is claiming they are selling you a stock in a company. That's the whole point. They are very clear that they aren't selling you a stock in a company.
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by User23 on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @12:19AM
(#27757319)
That’s what GOOG is (as opposed to the “real” Alphabet stock GOOGL). So by your definition one of the FAANGs is issuing “fake” stock. And for some reason it trades higher than the “real” shares.
Re:Fake Tesla, Apple stocks have started trading on blockchains
by joosters on Wednesday July 07, 2021 @02:18AM
(#27757981)
Owning GOOG still gives you a real 'share' in the company, i.e. if the company was wound up and all its assets sold off, you would get paid in proportion to the amount of GOOG you owned. Whereas you would get no such thing with these fake stocks.
If I sold you a stock in my company that gave you none of the traditional shareholder rights I'd also call those shares "fake", which seems to be what's going on here.