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Re:GitHub Copilot is not infringing copyright by joshuamorton on Monday July 05, 2021 @07:41PM (#27742868)
> Is it producing code (by which I mean creating/inventing new code by itself), or is it just combining existing code?

How do you differentiate between these two things?

If I take `for i in range(10):` from one place and `print(x * 2) from another place, and combine them to get

    for i in range(10):
        print(i ** 2)
have I "produced" something or "combined" existing things?

As an aside, your understanding of how the model works here is completely wrong. Like, just absolutely fundamentally completely wrong.

Re:GitHub Copilot is not infringing copyright by bogwog on Monday July 05, 2021 @09:27PM (#27743398)
> How do you differentiate between these two things?

That's a contrived example because none of those lines could be protected by copyright, patents, etc. A better example might be if you started selling a 30 minute movie that was just the first 15 minutes of Toy Story spliced together with the last 15 minutes of Shrek. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that would qualify as a derivative work, meaning you're potentially infringing on someone's rights (unless they've given you permission/a license).

And to be clear, none of these problems are new. People have been fighting over copyright and it's philosophy in court for a very long time. The only thing that's different here is that it seems some people think it's ok to ignore copyright if you use Copilot as a proxy for the infringement.

> As an aside, your understanding of how the model works here is completely wrong. Like, just absolutely fundamentally completely wrong.

Of course I don't, it's a neural network. You don't know either. That example I posted could be exactly what it's doing, or not even close.

(although for the record, I wasn't trying to explain how copilot works in that comment. It was a hypothetical "AI" for the sake of discussion, not that it matters. My point about it being copyright infringement is the same even if that hypothetical implementation is wrong)

Re:GitHub Copilot is not infringing copyright by nl on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @12:28AM (#27744227)
> Of course I don't, it's a neural network. You don't know either. That example I posted could be exactly what it's doing, or not even close.

What is this supposed to mean? We know how neural networks generate things like this very very well.

I personally have built a system that takes pictures of hand drawn mobile app layouts into the NN, then generates a JSON based description file that I compile into a Reactive Native and/or HTML5 layout file.

This was trivially easy in 2018 when I did it. It took me maybe 2 weeks engineering time, and I'm no genius. Our understanding of how transformer-based NNs work has come a long way since then, but even back then it was easy to show how conditioning on different parts of the image would generate different code.

Re:GitHub Copilot is not infringing copyright by joshuamorton on Monday July 05, 2021 @11:36PM (#27744008)
> That's a contrived example because none of those lines could be protected by copyright, patents, etc.

Well no. The question I'm asking about, the philosophical distinction between "producing" or "combining" is a valid question no matter the copyrightability of anything. It's an interesting philosophical question even if we presume that copyright is bubkis.

> It was a hypothetical "AI" for the sake of discussion, not that it matters.

Ah, my mistake. I see that now.

> Of course I don't, it's a neural network. You don't know either.

I may not know how to make a lightbulb, but I do know hundreds of ways not to make one ;)