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Re:Audacity fork without any sentry telemetry or crash repor... by orf on Monday July 05, 2021 @06:28PM (#27742402)
Wrong, users absolutely do need their software to not crash and to stay relevant. The user doesn’t have to update it (so no silent upgrades), but showing something when a new version is released is a great thing for moving your user-base off legacy versions containing bugs fixed in later versions.
Re:Audacity fork without any sentry telemetry or crash repor... by nitrogen on Monday July 05, 2021 @06:43PM (#27742519)
Show a button to check for updates on any version timestamped older than X months where the button hasn't been clicked in a while. Show the button on the crash dialog. Don't open a single socket without approval. Let the user decide.

This is a fundamental principle of human interaction -- ask first before touching someone's stuff.

Re:Audacity fork without any sentry telemetry or crash repor... by CJefferson on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @05:33AM (#27746006)
The problem nowadays, is with everything connected to everything else, some bugs need fixing fast.

Imagine if there is a buffer overflow in Audacity, meaning someone can take over your machine with a malformed sound file. I'd want to know about that ASAP -- not after a month.

On average, I believe most users benefit from an automated check for updates. It should be possible to disable it, but we should first worry about keeping users safe.

Re:Audacity fork without any sentry telemetry or crash repor... by nitrogen on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @02:43PM (#27752650)
On average, I believe most users benefit from an automated check for updates. It should be possible to disable it, but we should first worry about keeping users safe.

They should still ask first, at first run. I actually enable update checks for a lot of things, if I'm given the option up front. I'll submit crash reports and even periodic telemetry if I know that the crash reporting system doesn't download and run arbitrary code, shows me everything that will be submitted, and allows me to omit needlessly identifying details (e.g. custom kernel strings).

Some projects (KDE) make it really hard to submit crash reports, by requiring an account, etc. It must be optional, it must be easy, and it must be transparent. Then users will volunteer crash reports and stats. Respect breeds respect.

Re:Audacity fork without any sentry telemetry or crash repor... by BugWatch on Monday July 05, 2021 @08:48PM (#27743243)
Having written my rant(s) elsewhere in this thread, I'm just gonna telepathically project the "(slams the palm on the desk) THANK YOU!" gif.
Re:Audacity fork without any sentry telemetry or crash repor... by sneak on Monday July 05, 2021 @06:42PM (#27742510)
"moving your user-base" shows your bias here. The developer doesn't get to move their user base, the users get to decide what version of software they wish to run.

You don't need to perpetually run the latest release to "stay relevant". All of my workstations are still on Catalina and they're fine.

Re:Audacity fork without any sentry telemetry or crash repor... by Nevermark on Monday July 05, 2021 @07:03PM (#27742661)
Nobody should need YOUR crash reports. First line defense should always be internal crash vulnerability identification and closure. Information from users can then take two forms: user initiated reporting and opt-in automated user reporting.

Nowhere in that paragraph was their any technical reason that someone concerned with both getting crash fixes but avoiding crash reporting themselves should be told they can't have them both.

Also, opt-in silent updates don't inconvenience anyone. The user gets whichever situation they are most comfortable with.

Opt-in crash logs and opt-in silent updates should both be logged for easy user perusal.

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None of this inconveniences developers or users.

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The problem with any centralization of non-opt-in unlogged data gathering is it creates completely unnecessary hazards and trust problems.

Once an organization is pulling data, that data is now available to (1) incentivize the organization to use it in ways the subjects many never have considered, (2) incentivize the company to increase the amount of data they pull for good or ill, (3) is potentially a target for security breaches, and (4) is a potential target for governments to coercively surveil users by accessing the data or encouraging more data to be pulled.

None of the problems in the last paragraph will be apparent to users until they have already suffered damage. So concern about non-opt-in unlogged data gathering is extremely prudent.

Re:Audacity fork without any sentry telemetry or crash repor... by mixmastamyk on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @04:24AM (#27745509)
You don't seem to be aware of package managers and centralized updates? Every utility should not have its own.

Even on consumer desktops these kinds of updates are simply not critical.

Re:Audacity fork without any sentry telemetry or crash repor... by gnud on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @03:58AM (#27745339)
Pfff.

Audacity hasn't really changed in the last 5 years. It's still good.

I doubt I would miss anything I need if I somehow didn't update for a couple of years.