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Re:Hydrogen fuel cell cars (2020) by epistasis on Monday July 05, 2021 @07:36AM (#27736862)
> Cheapest way of charging EVs is from fossil fuels.

Fossil fuel electricity is more expensive than wind and solar. Even the most expensive solar, residential, is cheaper than buying from a dirty grid for the vast majority of customers. And the intermittent nature of solar and wind is a perfect match for charging a fleet of EVs.

In contrast, green hydrogen is nowhere near as cheap as fossil fuel hydrogen from steam methane reformation. The dirty secret that no hydrogen fan talks about is that "blue hydrogen" the bridge to green hydrogen, requires carbon capture technology that does not currently exist at scale. And it requires transporting CO2 back to some sequestration site, doubling the amount of transportation of gasses.

Re:Hydrogen fuel cell cars (2020) by pkphilip on Monday July 05, 2021 @07:54AM (#27736995)
Battery technology isn't very "green" either. Lithium and its alternatives require extensive, polluting mining operations while Hydrogen can be generated from water, water vapor, methane etc.
Re:Hydrogen fuel cell cars (2020) by paulintrognon on Monday July 05, 2021 @09:07AM (#27737550)
No energy is green. Not a single energy source does not require some mining / oil extracting at some point. We have to choose the solution which impact as little as possible the environment on global scale.

Beware of the Nirvana Fallacy! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy

Re:Hydrogen fuel cell cars (2020) by epistasis on Monday July 05, 2021 @08:54AM (#27737444)
And how does that hydrogen get transformed from water? Alkaline or PEM electrolyzers, but at what environmental cost? And all the fuel cell materials? Why selectively evaluate only one side of the equation? That seems rather biased.
Re:Hydrogen fuel cell cars (2020) by throwaway210222 on Monday July 05, 2021 @08:58AM (#27737469)
> Battery technology isn't very "green" … while Hydrogen can be generated from … methane.

Methane steam reformation is now green?

Re:Hydrogen fuel cell cars (2020) by epistasis on Monday July 05, 2021 @10:25AM (#27738318)
You're right, it's not. And the only way to make it halfway palatable, the so-called "blue" hydrogen, is to do carbon capture and sequestration during steam methane reformation.

However, for more than a decade, fossil fuel companies have said carbon capture and sequestration will be easy, and then failed to execute on any of their industrial size projects. Plus, what is that captured carbon used for? Extracting more fossil fuels. Plus the sequestration requires transporting carbon long distances, and somehow making sure that the sequestration lasts on geological time scales.

So any mention of methane for hydrogen should raise huge red flags and discredit that path. There's only one path for hydrogen in the future, and that's electrolyzers, and making them go through exponential price drops over the next two decades.

Re:Hydrogen fuel cell cars (2020) by twobitshifter on Monday July 05, 2021 @08:59AM (#27737484)
Hydrogen fuel cells use platinum catalysts. Platinum also must be mined and unlike lithium is very rare.
Re:Hydrogen fuel cell cars (2020) by pkphilip on Sunday July 11, 2021 @10:20AM (#27801044)
There are existing ways of generating Hydrogen using coated Nickel electrodes