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Re:Stockfish 14 by nl on Monday July 05, 2021 @02:19AM (#27735117)
It's not really.

What they are describing is that feeling you get when you suddenly realize you are losing even though you are even in pieces, because you suddenly see your opposition has superior positioning and board control

It's not a blunder, because there wasn't one particular move where the game slipped away.

At high levels, blunders are rare.

Re:Stockfish 14 by mlang23 on Monday July 05, 2021 @02:38AM (#27735198)
If the evaluation of a position were only about the raw material count, the game would be rather dull.
Re:Stockfish 14 by slampig on Monday July 05, 2021 @03:31AM (#27735464)
The "oh shit" move doesn't necessarily make your position suddenly way worse, it can be just the moment when you realize how much better your opponents position has been for a while.
Re:Stockfish 14 by nl on Monday July 05, 2021 @06:29AM (#27736386)
Sure.

Hence why I talked about the feeling you get when you realise you have mis-evaluated rather than trying to define it precisely.

From the OP:

> But when AlphaZero plays, and you watch Stockfish's score, the reason it wins is that it makes moves Stockfish thinks is poor, so it rates AlphaZero's moves poorly, and then all of a sudden it has an oh shit! moment when it realises that AlphaZero is actually ahead, and its score jumps. It's really a look inside the computer's head while it's being beaten by a better player.

Sure - you get that feeling from blunders too. But take a look at the Stockfish vs Alpha Zero games - Stockfish doesn't blunder. It it just outplayed: https://www.chess.com/news/view/updated-alphazero-crushes-st...

If you watch from here in game one you can see the "oh shit" moment, as Stockfish's evaluation drops from +1 to even to -1: https://youtu.be/Q5EPqM8gS7k?t=255

Re:Stockfish 14 by thom on Monday July 05, 2021 @08:27AM (#27737262)
There were blunders in the first round of games. I remember this vividly because I went through all the games with the exact same version of Stockfish with the same time controls and it thought some of its own moves were blunders. This is partly why people were so puzzled by the setup that led to this.
Re:Stockfish 14 by michaelt on Monday July 05, 2021 @04:00AM (#27735590)
Most people I've seen talking about chess use "blunder" to describe a mistake with almost-immediate consequences like the loss of materiel.

A move that worsens the position in a way that's not so immediately obvious might be called a 'mistake' or 'inaccuracy'

By these standards, it's quite possible for a game between humans to be won or lost without a blunder on either side.