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Re:The Collapse of American Identity by hef19898 on Thursday July 01, 2021 @09:26AM (#27698819)
Given that the first North American settlers were basically fugitives from Great Britain, and all other colonies were there to exploit local resources and people, the US was first and foremost a money thing. Also for the Boston tea party, which was as much about independence as it was about taxes.

And how enlightened can a nation be that is among the last to abolish slavery, and that had to fight a civil war about that very question.

Re:The Collapse of American Identity by zozbot234 on Thursday July 01, 2021 @09:34AM (#27698879)
North American settlers were far from uniform historically. Some were first and foremost after money and power (e.g. the first Southern plantation owners were quite unapologetically so). Other "fugitives" were rather more concerned about pursuing various combinations of public-mindedness, radical autonomy and broad-based opportunity. North American settlement was a rather complex story.
Re:The Collapse of American Identity by hef19898 on Thursday July 01, 2021 @09:39AM (#27698922)
Sure, in the South it was ruthless Europeans trying to get rich. And they did. The Mayflower settlers were more or less fugitives from Britain, while all other colonial powers, Spain, Portugal, France, the Netherlands, were only there to exploit. Not very enlightened, even compared to contemporary Europe back then.
Re:The Collapse of American Identity by bvggnbd on Thursday July 01, 2021 @09:41AM (#27698937)
among the last? that seems wrong according to this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_abolition_of_sla...
Re:The Collapse of American Identity by hef19898 on Thursday July 01, 2021 @09:45AM (#27698977)
All major powers of the time were faster. Even if Napoleon made slavery legal again in the colonies for a while it was abolished in the main land before.
Re:The Collapse of American Identity by ameister14 on Thursday July 01, 2021 @10:41AM (#27699481)
I don't think it's a good idea to allow one's conception of the US as a major power in the 20th century to impact the knowledge that the US was most certainly NOT a major power for most of the 19th. The US was a backwards, dangerous and poor country compared to the major powers, very much still in development.
Re:The Collapse of American Identity by taurath on Friday July 02, 2021 @04:36AM (#27709152)
Not really. Backwards poor countries don’t get into wars in the Mediterranean Sea. You underestimate how much relative wealth and power the US had when it seceded. Frontier sure.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars

Re:The Collapse of American Identity by true_religion on Friday July 02, 2021 @06:06AM (#27709716)
Comparative backwards poor countries get involved in strange things all the time.

Kwame Nkrumah, 1st dictator of Ghana was overthrown when he was out of the country attempting to negotiate a ceasefire between the USSR and the USA during the Vietnam war.

But back to the Barbary Wars. That was conducted against 'pirates' and was done in concert with several European powers. The closest comparison would be modern UN/NATO/ECOWAS led 'police action' style wars against warlords in disputed territories which are disrupting trade.

It's notable that you can't avoid a war with pirates or warlords. They're actively killing your citizens and stealing your import/export material. Even the tiniest of nations has to respond eventually or give up on being a trading partner to anyone.

For example:

> From 1796–1797 French raiders seized some 316 American merchant ships flying American colors.

This overall would force the the U.S.'s hand, regardless of if it was backwards or poor. To do nothing, would be to condemn U.S. foreign trade to being controlled by another power---something that the U.S. was too proud to allow.

Re:The Collapse of American Identity by hollerith on Thursday July 01, 2021 @11:26AM (#27700090)
The average American was taller and healthier than the average Englishman, Frenchman, etc, not only in the 19th Century but also in colonial times, so it is unclear what you mean by "poor country".
Re:The Collapse of American Identity by fincamad on Tuesday July 06, 2021 @05:13PM (#27754315)
ALL major powers? China in 2021 has Uyghurs enslaved.