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Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by bonzini on Sunday June 27, 2021 @10:56AM (#27652059)
It's not a hard requirement, GNOME still runs on the BSDs.
Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by josephcsible on Sunday June 27, 2021 @11:06AM (#27652137)
Thankfully, sanity eventually did prevail in GNOME (just related to this matter, not in general), but there was a period of time where systemd absolutely was a hard dependency,
Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by zxzax on Sunday June 27, 2021 @01:55PM (#27653648)
I'm not sure what period you're alluding to, but if that did happen, it seems it happened because things stalled on the BSD side, not because of any changes in GNOME. Can you please elaborate what you mean? I'm interested to get a BSD developer's view of the history, but I've only seen a few vague blog posts on this matter.
Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by bkor on Sunday June 27, 2021 @02:29PM (#27653931)
> Thankfully, sanity eventually did prevail in GNOME (just related to this matter, not in general)

You've rewritten history to pretend you're right. Then you follow up with more drivel? Sorry, aside from trolling, what is your point?

Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by josephcsible on Sunday June 27, 2021 @03:15PM (#27654360)
> You've rewritten history

This seems pretty clear that GNOME used to depend on systemd. How am I rewriting anything? https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Hard_dependencies_on_systemd#Pa...

Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by bkor on Sunday June 27, 2021 @05:01PM (#27655285)
GNOME relies on some API that has been implemented by elogind. Nothing in this bit changed. Gentoo (I think with the help of some others) ensured it was implemented (forked) so the API could still be used without systemd.

I thought you were the same as the other person. You're continuing the same argument, so it really doesn't matter if you're the same or not: "quickly made systemd a hard requirement" is bullshit. Further, it could easily be worked around.

If you notice e.g. the history of Ubuntu it happens regularly that you hold back a component if there's a problem integrating it. This happens across multiple distributions. It isn't something unique, nor special.

GNOME nor Red Hat did NOT "quickly made systemd a hard requirement". Gentoo was great to ensure that the API that was depended upon was implemented separately. Aside from that, a distribution could also hold back the logind change that caused this change. Skipping over all of these details is great to make this into some big conspiracy story. However, it is rewriting history. It wasn't something unique. Yeah, GNOME release team misjudged one thing. But it actually took a few years before it became an issue. Not this drivel with "OMG they added a hard dependency". It wasn't like that.

Re:Avoiding Complexity with Systemd by zxzax on Sunday June 27, 2021 @03:24PM (#27654444)
That's not a full picture, apparently that was due to some specific problem in Gentoo: https://blogs.gnome.org/ovitters/2013/09/25/gnome-and-logind...

AFAIK the GNOME Wayland session still depends on logind, but that's more because there has been no interest in getting it to work on BSD yet.