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Re:Why did we ever think a student's first programming langu... by throwawayboise on Saturday June 26, 2021 @10:52PM (#27648096)
Or it simply means the student does not have the aptitude for programming. Not everyone does.
Re:Why did we ever think a student's first programming langu... by open-source-ux on Sunday June 27, 2021 @10:02AM (#27651636)
"Or it simply means the student does not have the aptitude for programming. Not everyone does."

Some students (and programmers) can excel in one programming language and struggle with a different one. Programmers don't want to admit this because it suggests a superficial focus on syntax.

Developers often say: it's semantics that matter in programming, not syntax. But you can't separate syntax from semantics - they are so closely entwined. And for many developers it shapes the way they solve problems (me included).

Some programmers develop a deep understanding of semantics that makes them easily see beyond syntax regardless of the language. I'm definitely not one of them. Dare I suggest (with no judgement), that a substantial number of programmers, possibly even the majority, also find it difficult to see beyond syntax for more complex programming topics?

Aside: A tweet from Sahil Lavingia (founder of Gumroad) from 2019:

"For those who think they can't learn how to code: try another language.

I tried PHP a few times and gave up. Then JavaScript: gave up.

Then the iPhone came out, I tried iOS development, and everything started to click!"

https://twitter.com/shl/status/1173967528017551360

Re:Why did we ever think a student's first programming langu... by esrauch on Saturday June 26, 2021 @11:05PM (#27648174)
But the topic is how their view is shaped by the first language they learn. If they learn C first, will their ability to knowledge transfer into other languages happen differently then if they learned Python first?

Concretely, I can't fathom how people learn Rust without learning one of C or C++ first, and I'd think the underpinnings of how you understand code and systems is probably different if you are subconsciously mapping new concepts back to Python or Java or whatever.

Re:Why did we ever think a student's first programming langu... by lupire on Saturday June 26, 2021 @11:14PM (#27648223)
C is very different from C++. Rust isn't more complicated than C++.
Re:Why did we ever think a student's first programming langu... by esrauch on Sunday June 27, 2021 @08:53AM (#27651191)
I agree they are different, I really did mean "I don't understand how people learn Rust without first learning one of several languages that are more straightforward/explicit what is on the stack and what is on the heap".

C++ overall obviously isn't simpler then Rust; C++ in its entirety so complicated it's like three languages stapled together. But with C++ as first language, you can study programming for 6 months before ever even hearing about std::move, and with Rust you'd need to already learn about move semantics on like week 3, when people are still having trouble with loops