S.F. spends more than $60K per tent at homeless sites

Re:S.F. spends more than $60K per tent at homeless sites by jrowley on Saturday June 26, 2021 @10:15AM (#27642046)

But you can’t move these individual’s support networks also. Their friends, family, doctors. They might not have a permanent living space, but they may have a city they grew up in, a place they call home.

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Re:S.F. spends more than $60K per tent at homeless sites by lotsofpulp on Saturday June 26, 2021 @10:18AM (#27642072)

My parents immigrated to the US, and we moved 8 times by the time I was in 9th grade, away from friends and family (affording doctors was out of the question). Not to highly desirable places with CA coast weather, but to rural places in the south with heat and bugs, and rural places in the north with the cold. And my parents slowly moved up the ladder in each place doing whatever was in demand and had to be done to establish their footing.

I think there is an interesting discussion of what is and is not owed to people, and where it is owed.

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Re:S.F. spends more than $60K per tent at homeless sites by atonse on Saturday June 26, 2021 @10:34AM (#27642198)

I’m also an immigrant and often lament the difference in attitude between immigrants and natives in any country. But it’s not a fair comparison because immigrants as a group self select. If you had the motivation to move to a different country, often one that doesn’t speak your language, you’re naturally more driven and motivated.

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Re:S.F. spends more than $60K per tent at homeless sites by lotsofpulp on Saturday June 26, 2021 @10:58AM (#27642414)

Rewarding the motivated and driven and not rewarding the unmotivated and non driven seems like the ideal incentive structure for society. Obviously, easier to write than implement and execute.

But my point is is there an obligation for society to not have to make people move if the economic conditions change and labor supply and demand curves move? What are the long term effects of these incentive structures?

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Re:S.F. spends more than $60K per tent at homeless sites by luffapi on Saturday June 26, 2021 @11:50AM (#27642891)

The government shouldn’t be in the business of “motivating” anyone (that’s propaganda). Having a social safety net so we don’t have an army of homeless people has nothing to do with “reward”, it raises the quality of living for all of us.

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Re:S.F. spends more than $60K per tent at homeless sites by lotsofpulp on Saturday June 26, 2021 @12:52PM (#27643503)

I am a proponent of certain social safety nets, but I am not sure the feasibility of one of them being that you can live wherever you want. We already enforce a barrier at a country’s borders, but even within a country, what would mitigate the effects everyone wanting to live in the most desirable areas?

Perhaps the answer is to just keep going more dense, if one’s position is that within a country, anyone is allowed to live anywhere, either via their own means or government assistance. But I do not see that being politically popular with many, and I can envision a few feasibility concerns with that approach.

Another option is that the location where you get a social safety net is not guaranteed, and so desirable land is distributed according to one’s wealth (which I know is highly dependent on one’s ancestry).

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Re:S.F. spends more than $60K per tent at homeless sites by luffapi on Saturday June 26, 2021 @12:57PM (#27643556)

Mixed income housing is a good thing and leads to healthier communities. We need more public housing, low income housing and density in all metros. I think London does a good job here. It’s expensive to buy, but they have vibrant communities with public housing mixed in and to the benefit of everyone, you don’t step in human excrement every time you walk outside (opposed to SF).

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Re:S.F. spends more than $60K per tent at homeless sites by klyrs on Saturday June 26, 2021 @01:45PM (#27644070)

Being unmotivated, undriven is hand in glove with depression. Rewarding the mentally healthy while scorning the mentally ill doesn't strike me as "ideal."

Homeless people move to places with mild winters, because they don't see housing as an attainable goal. Maybe they'd move somewhere with free housing -- or maybe they'd assume that any such program wouldn't survive an election cycle, so would rather stay put than get their hopes up.

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Re:S.F. spends more than $60K per tent at homeless sites by m0llusk on Saturday June 26, 2021 @05:03PM (#27645819)

If the conversation is going to head into spreadsheet territory then it needs a more comprehensive look at costs and benefits. Homeless people often commit minor crimes and cause calls to emergency services. These interventions are expensive and add up. It may be more cost effective to get people homes and some assistance than to have them living on the streets where they constantly cause trouble. This points toward a situation where the issue is making society work reasonably well and not simply adding up who owes what.

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[dead]

Re:S.F. spends more than $60K per tent at homeless sites by aww_dang on Saturday June 26, 2021 @10:20AM (#27642095)

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/14/us/homeless-busing-seattl...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...

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Re:S.F. spends more than $60K per tent at homeless sites by jrowley on Saturday June 26, 2021 @10:24AM (#27642137)

Exactly. Does bussing help the individual or simply get them out of your way?

Sometimes returning people to their support networks in other states can be a solution, but “banishing” doesn’t sound legal or ethical.

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Re:S.F. spends more than $60K per tent at homeless sites by aww_dang on Saturday June 26, 2021 @10:49AM (#27642330)

According to the article, some of the people were helped by the busing program. When they were "banished", they had entered a contract not to use homeless services in that locale.

If they were not helped, were they any worse off? That question wasn't answered.

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Re:S.F. spends more than $60K per tent at homeless sites by innagadadavida on Saturday June 26, 2021 @10:28AM (#27642164)

You could even just give them a used car and free supplies. The same amount of money per person spent in schools will do wonders for everyone and the state. Stop the government corruption.

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