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Re:Peter Thiel turned a Roth IRA into a $5B tax-free piggy bank by lend000 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @06:47PM (#27624928)
> successfully used an instrument designed for the 'middle class' to shelter billions in earnings

A Roth IRA is beneficial if positions are being changed (taxable events), because those taxes are deferred. For very long term holding, the benefit caps out at 20% in exchange for tying up the assets for decades.

He will eventually benefit, if the company is still valuable when he comes of retirement age, by avoiding the single long term capital gains hit he would otherwise pay. It'll be more of a story, then, if the stock is near an all time high value, but frankly, this is not a scalable investment strategy for the wealthy sheltering their wealth (which would be a more interesting story). This only worked because he has been an exceptionally prescient investor. This wouldn't be a good strategy for every startup founder, because even if the startup was mega-successful, the founders would not be rich until retirement.

Re:Peter Thiel turned a Roth IRA into a $5B tax-free piggy bank by birken on Thursday June 24, 2021 @06:57PM (#27625001)
He has been constantly changing his positions and using the proceeds to invest in other companies. The benefit isn't one time, it is compounding over time, because he gets to keep investing the 20% of extra money he would have had to pay in capital gains, over and over again, as he shifts his money between investments. It would pay off anyways even if he did have to pay 20% when he eventually withdraws, but the fact that he gets it all tax-free makes it pay off massively.

He also doesn't have to keep all of his wealth in this Roth IRA, just a percentage. And it clearly is a scalable strategy because lots of people are doing it.

Re:Peter Thiel turned a Roth IRA into a $5B tax-free piggy bank by erik998 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:06PM (#27625533)
This worked because he used a self directed IRA that most likely invested in some LLC with a marginal amount. It's very probable he also invested in the same company via some other investment vehicle, possibly direct ownership. The managing members simply assigned more benefits to the self directed IRA instead of the other account...

What does not seem fair is that most people think you can only invest in stocks and bonds in an IRA. You go to a bank or brokerage to open an IRA account... They offer you mutual funds, etfs, stocks, bonds... not much else... No one ever tells you that you can do this a different way and invest in different ways... Why? It's just too complicated for most people...

https://trustprovident.com/self-directed-investing-in-a-limi...

Yes it does suck for the rest of us but if you have money you have good advisors that can construct this IRA and all of its transactions in a legitimate manner.

Re:Peter Thiel turned a Roth IRA into a $5B tax-free piggy bank by erentz on Thursday June 24, 2021 @08:56PM (#27625895)
What really sucks is I never got the opportunity to invest in PYPL at $0.001 per share. That’s the part that actually confused me. Sure its pre-IPO, but I’ve never seen any that are pricing their shares that low in the beginning, did I miss something?
Re:Peter Thiel turned a Roth IRA into a $5B tax-free piggy bank by erik998 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:04PM (#27625950)
oh yes the par value of stock...

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/what-is-par-value-st...

I think he went the route of his IRA's investment llc membership units being assigned a super large assignment of income distribution vs his initial investment.

just guessing...

Re:Peter Thiel turned a Roth IRA into a $5B tax-free piggy bank by erentz on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:28PM (#27626141)
I’m still not really following, what are you saying about assigning income distribution?

But so the way the article made it sound then is his IRA paid for the shares at par value ($1700 = 1700000 shares IIRC). Even though they were of course worth more than par value, so then he owes money to the company for the difference but if that wasn’t paid out of the IRA that would seem an incredible and surely illegal tax dodge so I don’t think that could be the case.

Re:Peter Thiel turned a Roth IRA into a $5B tax-free piggy bank by erik998 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:37PM (#27626212)
my bad you are correct,

https://sdirahandbook.com/self-directed-ira-investing/fund-s...

it is in section: Need to Know #1: Prohibited Transactions

Re:Peter Thiel turned a Roth IRA into a $5B tax-free piggy bank by erik998 on Thursday June 24, 2021 @09:35PM (#27626201)
Re:Peter Thiel turned a Roth IRA into a $5B tax-free piggy bank by gnopgnip on Thursday June 24, 2021 @07:16PM (#27625159)
Nothing is deferred with a Roth IRA. There are no taxes owed on distributions.