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A comment on A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities. Parent comment

Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by dvt on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @05:56PM (#27611002)
> How is your argument anything other than we must do everything within our rights and capacity, as a country, to prevent each and every failure of civic responsibility?

Apart from the insults (accusing me of not liking logic, etc.), this is a straw-man and, just to be clear, is absolutely not what I'm arguing.

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Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by 9wzYQbTYsAIc on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @06:03PM (#27611073)
Let’s be extra clear: what exactly is your argument?
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Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by FabHK on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @10:06PM (#27613055)
Not GP, but from my understanding GP was rebutting (convincingly) this specific proposition:

> the very small community that we are talking about is disproportionately being subjected to murder

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Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by 9wzYQbTYsAIc on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @10:32PM (#27613203)
The law of averages is not a convincing argument.

I believe this paper ought to suffice as the entry point for the non-scientific community to pursue the academic research that supports my original assertion:

Violence against transgender people: A review of United States data, Aggression and Violent Behavior, Volume 14, Issue 3, 2009, Pages 170-179

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S13591...

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Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by dvt on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:57PM (#27613821)
That paper (full text in [1]) does not support your argument at all. In fact, murder rates are only mentioned in §3.2:

> The report related stories of 51 transgender and gender non-conforming individuals under the age of 30 who were murdered in the United States between 1995 and 2005.

Quite frankly, this number is even lower than the FBI's statistics.

[1] https://transgender.or.ke/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Violenc...

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Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by 9wzYQbTYsAIc on Thursday June 24, 2021 @12:31AM (#27614012)
Also from the referenced article:

> What is beginning to emerge from these multiple sources of data are the increased risks of variety of types of violence, though in particular sexual violence, faced by transgender people

Their conclusion directly states that there is an increased risk of violence for transgender people.

Secondarily, their conclusion also hints at there being empirical evidence that one cannot extrapolate from murder rates to cover all forms of victim-having crime. That would imply that your argument is indeed suffering from the law of averages.

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Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by dvt on Thursday June 24, 2021 @01:08AM (#27614159)
> ...hints at there being empirical evidence that one cannot extrapolate from murder rates to cover all forms of victim-having crime...

I hope you see how weak your argument is when your own cited paper merely "hints" at your purported conclusion.

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Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by 9wzYQbTYsAIc on Thursday June 24, 2021 @01:10AM (#27614171)
Merely hints at my contention that you are succumbing to the law of averages.

It directly supports my original conclusion that there are disproportionate experiences of harms for transgender people.

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Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by 9wzYQbTYsAIc on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @06:23PM (#27611307)
> Apart from the insults

I was implicitly referring to this exchange:

> > This is provably untrue. > Both of you are correct, you're just looking at probabilities conditioned in the opposite way.

Which you neglected to incorporate into your mental model of this topic.

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Re:A backlash against gender ideology is starting in univers... by 9wzYQbTYsAIc on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @06:10PM (#27611158)
> this is a straw-man

You seem to be succumbing to a psychological phenomenon called projection.

In fact, you have set up a straw man argument, contrary to HN site guidelines of using the most charitable reading of my original comment, and then inverted your mental model such that you believe I am the one setting up the straw man.

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