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Re:What Is Voter Satisfaction Efficiency? by notahacker on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @08:45AM (#27603840)
The main advantage of IRV is that it isn't a particularly strategic vote. You put the candidates you in the order of your actual preference, and that's it (there are edge cases, but compared with other systems, pretty rare ones, and their complexity tends to actually discourage strategic behaviours like elevating a decent candidate you think is more likely to win than your first choices). The strategic considerations you actually might want to make are very basic (if you really, really want to make sure someone doesn't win, you can rank parties you're pretty unimpressed with ahead of them).

A ratings ballot, on the other hand, involves massive amounts of thinking. First of all, the concept of what might represent an "honest" approach to intensity of preferences is open to debate. It's US culture to give their Uber driver max marks and tip the serving staff 20%; is this an honest reflection of the intensity of the average American's enthusiasm for service workers relative to people from non-American cultures or simply what they've been taught to do? And real world electoral situations give you all kinds of incentives to do other things (like give your preferred candidate max marks and all the other candidates 0, or all the candidates you don't hate at least 9 out of 10). Is the person who bullet votes max marks for his preferred candidate because that's what the campaign literature suggested really worth more votes than the person who carefully evaluated all the candidates on their merits but doesn't think any of the candidates are worth more than 6 out of 10? With approval voting it's arguably even worse because there's a massive dilemma over whether to vote positively for the candidate(s) you want or negatively to eliminate the risk of candidates you want to lose. Obviously this applies unevenly to different demographics: put someone downright nasty towards a particular demographic on the ballot paper, and suddenly that demographic is under pressure to Approve every other candidate, whilst others continue to happily only vote for candidates they actually want.

If you design an efficiency metric with the arguably unjustifiable assumption that votes always represent either a perfect expression of the intensity of their preferences or a simple uniform strategic vote, and you assume that the proportion of people voting strategically is unaffected by voting system, it is unsurprising that voting systems whose main shortcomings are strategic complexity perform well. Even looking at that data, IRV actually outperforms nearly all the systems if you assume IRV voters are honest and voters using the other system are very strategic which isn't unreasonable given the incentive structures of the different systems.

Re:What Is Voter Satisfaction Efficiency? by kortex on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @09:24AM (#27604260)
Excellent critique of ratings based system. I think this is the biggest problem with multi-point (more than 3 values for score) STAR voting. What constitutes "5 star"? What about 0/blank vs 1 star?

Framing is important, and I think STAR would be most optimal with good ol' Likert scale (five or seven point) rather than 0-N stars. But I think even simpler is the "3-point Likert" behavior of V321: approve, disapprove, and "meh, ok."

I don't like how IRV forces me to rank candidates I may know little to nothing about (e.g. downballot randos not on "my team"). I don't really care if Kick Puppies Party is above or below Trip Grandparents Party.

Re:What Is Voter Satisfaction Efficiency? by notahacker on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:41AM (#27605807)
You're entitled to leave both the Kick Puppies and Trip Grandparents party off your ranking!

V321 is certainly more intuitive in the ratings (it's basically an upvote/downvote system) if not the counting, but it's still quite strategic. On the plus side, the most basic strategy of simply upvoting who you want to win and downvoting the candidates you hate ensures the most divisive candidates are removed from the pool and the obscure fringe candidates are unlikely to benefit, but there's a fair bit of juggling how many candidates to upvote or downvote depending on what you think of the candidates seen as most likely to win the final round

Re:What Is Voter Satisfaction Efficiency? by zajio1am on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @11:57AM (#27606005)
> I don't like how IRV forces me to rank candidates I may know little to nothing about

That is an implementation issue. IRV can be implemented as either requiring complete ordering or allow partial ordering (you have n candidates, you can assign each one level 1..n, but you may use the same level for more candidates to describe partial ordering).

Re:What Is Voter Satisfaction Efficiency? by dragonwriter on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @12:32PM (#27606427)
> IRV can be implemented as either requiring complete ordering or allow partial ordering (you have n candidates, you can assign each one level 1..n, but you may use the same level for more candidates to describe partial ordering).

Technically, that’s a complete ordering with unforced preferences, not a partial ordering.

A ballot with a partial ordering would be won for which for some pair of candidates A, B, none of A> B, A<B, nor A=B would be true. Equal preference and absence of preference are different.

A ballot that worked this way would be a meaningful extension in existing ranked preference methods that aggregate pairwise preferences from individual ballots, lile ranked pairs. (Whether the effect would be desirable is not something I’ve really analyzed, but that kind of method would naturally make distinct use of the information.)

Re:What Is Voter Satisfaction Efficiency? by zajio1am on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @01:14PM (#27607053)
> that’s a complete ordering with unforced preferences, not a partial ordering.

Yes, it is weak ordering, not partial ordering.

> Equal preference and absence of preference are different.

Well, it may be understood as absence of preference, provided the absence of preference is transitive.

Re:What Is Voter Satisfaction Efficiency? by jlokier on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @10:03AM (#27604683)
That's why I favour ranked systems that allow you to place multiple candidates at equal rank if you wish, and to leave off ones you really don't like.
Re:What Is Voter Satisfaction Efficiency? by obelos on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @12:04PM (#27606093)
Isn't that just a score/range system, then?
Re:What Is Voter Satisfaction Efficiency? by dragonwriter on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @04:45PM (#27610091)
A score or range system has more possible values than candidates and treats ballots with different numbers but the same ordering differently; its not the same as an unforced preference ranked ballot (a ranked preference ballot that allows ties).
Re:What Is Voter Satisfaction Efficiency? by obelos on Wednesday June 23, 2021 @12:03PM (#27606084)
It's simply not accurate to say that IRV isn't particularly strategic. It removes strategy from basically one case: two viable major candidates and one or more nonviable minor candidates. As soon are there are more than two viable choices, IRV often requires you to betray your favorite and rank them lower in order to reduce the likelihood that your least favorite will win.