Re:Why is AI hard and physics simple?
by banamonster1 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @04:11PM
(#27596553)
people are missing the point
the author is talking about constraint optimization in physics vs ml/ai
constraint optimization is easier with a well defined prior vs the guess work in ml algos.
dl models in physics can scale and emergent phenomena will depend on scaling parameters -- this is coarse graining in physics.
I didn't miss the point. my graduate work was using constraint optimizers in molecular dynamics (n-body physics) and it translated to ML (I didn't have to relearn anything). The one part that was truly simpler is the objective functions in ML are believable to be convex, while n-body physics with constraints are highly non-convex).
Re:Why is AI hard and physics simple?
by banamonster1 on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @04:33PM
(#27596831)
people on the board, not you
> my graduate work was using constraint optimizers in molecular dynamics
me too for qm/mm sims -- did some rg/complex systems work too ;)
In the future you should probably respond to the people you intend your comment to be a response to.
Re:Why is AI hard and physics simple?
by TrinaryWorksToo on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @10:40PM
(#27600182)
The funny part is that Group theory is heavily integrated with the mathematics of neural networks. So much so that some mathematicians say that finding the invariants of groups is what makes NNs work.
http://proceedings.mlr.press/v76/ensign17a/ensign17a.pdf
"The key idea behind our results is that if we can find the symmetries of a problem then we can solve it"
wat? I've worked in neural nets for 30 years and I've never needed group theory. just linear algebra, multivariate calculus, number theory.
I appreciate that symmetries are great but that doesn't solve a problem.
The math behind ML is far from simple. Look at manifold learning and the math behind learning theory. I agree with the general point tho
Re:Why is AI hard and physics simple?
by concreteblock on Tuesday June 22, 2021 @04:07PM
(#27596517)
The title is 'clickbait' for sure, but not neccessarily incorrect. After all 'simple' can mean different things to different people. And the author clarifies what he means by 'simple' in the rest of the article.
With only a few exceptions, ML is incredibly simple (there is no AI). The math is simple, the mechanics of evaluating it is simple, the reason it works is simple, and it only really works well if you have absurd amounts of data and CPU time.
Physics is... determining the mathematics you need to know on the fly while discovering and explaining many phenomena. You can spend decades focusing on matrix multiplications and other fairly straightforward trivia to analyze your particle trajectories, and then suddenly, you need to know group theory or some completely different field of math just to understand the basic modelling.
Personally I think the most impressive thing in physics and stats so far is our ability to predict the trajectories of solar system objects far into the future. After some very serious numerical analysis over the past 50 years, we've reached the point where there aren't many improvements we can make, and most of them come from identifying new objects, their position, and mass (data/parameters), and the real argument is about whether the underlying behavior is truly unpredictable even if you have perfect information.
Of course, the last best work in this area was done by Sussman who has been an ML researcher for some time: (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6039194_Chaotic_Evo...)
As you can see, physicists pretty much invented all the math to do ML whilst solving other problems along the way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stability_of_the_Solar_System
in fact many of my friends who were physics people, when I show them the code of a large scale batch training system they wonder why they did physics instead of CS because the math is so unbelivably simple compared ot the tensor path integrals they had to learn in Senior Physics.