AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iOS devices

Re:AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iO... by judge2020 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @08:49AM (#27569462)

They're able to 'get away with it' since their profit models isn’t just the profit from the initial sale. If Apple didn't have their 30% cut of apps and in-app purchases, they would have to increase their margins on the product to make up for the years of income they otherwise would've gotten - I wouldn't be surprised if that meant a $500 increase since they're losing out on multiple years of income.

It's the same for consoles - PS5 and Xbox Series consoles are quite literally sold at a lost or at-cost, and that miniscule amount they make off the consoles doesn't pay for the servers, software, or the margin they actually would want for engineering the hardware if they didn't lock purchases to their own stores and take 30% of those sales.

The only difference between iOS devices and these is that you can see an upfront profit on the purchase for iOS devices, even if that doesn't include the margin Apple actually expects over the lifetime of the device.

https://www.gamesradar.com/ps5-is-being-sold-at-a-loss-but-h...

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Re:AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iO... by qwytw on Sunday June 20, 2021 @09:27AM (#27569741)

Nonsense, Apple prices the iPhone at a level they think the market would bear. Unless it's clients valued the ability to freely install any software at $500 (which I think is highly doubtful) there is no way they could increase their prices by that much without losing a lots of sales. And in any case Apple's profit margins on their hardware are considerably higher any other smartphone manufacturer's.

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Re:AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iO... by judge2020 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @09:40AM (#27569847)

That's exactly my point - their current profit margins include post-sale app store driven revenue. Removing that means they no longer make the same money that they did before, so if they want to maintain that margin they'll have to increases upfront costs to offset the lost revenue.

One more example is the Oculus Quest 2 - it's $300 (64gb ssd) or $400 (256gb) for a truly outstanding headset, but it probably costs Facebook $400-$600 to make each unit of hardware. If you don't want to see ads[0] or log in with Facebook, that price becomes $800[1].

All i'm saying is that people will always pick the product that's cheaper but equivalent and are usually fine with post-purchase rent seeking via ads or a service fee that is (invisibly) tacked onto future purchases.

0: https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57526135

1: https://i.judge.sh/lone/Derpy/HcfjI7YBPF.png ( https://business.oculus.com/products/ )

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Re:AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iO... by Y_Y on Sunday June 20, 2021 @09:58AM (#27570014)

I think you misunderstand. A company will just charge whatever price maximises profit, there's no reason to "maintain margin" or anything like that. If they thought they could increase the price today and get a net gain after demand fell then they'd absolutely do it.

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Re:AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iO... by judge2020 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @10:21AM (#27570277)

Sure, but more people are happy paying after the fact (in the case of oculus, via ads and 30% of sales going to FB) that I’m highly doubtful that they would make the same overall profit if they did sell it for the actual price they want without getting any money on the backend, especially if that backend money never stops even 10 years after the initial purchase.

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Re:AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iO... by mthoms on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:10AM (#27570773)

They aren’t somehow entitled to make “the same overall profit”. You seem to think they are.

It’s additional revenue. The phone itself is already hugely profitable. In fact, the original business model didn’t include App Store revenue at all, and Apple were perfectly happy with that.

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Re:AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iO... by mthoms on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:04AM (#27570723)

I don’t have the calculations handy but at one point I was able to figure that the average iPhone user in the US spends (very roughly) $30-$40 per year in the App Store. Even at a 30% cut over the 3-4 year lifespan of the phone it’s not anywhere near $500.

Besides, the hardware itself is already very profitable. The argument that the phone is subsidized by the additional revenue Apple gets is not very good. Apple aren’t entitled to make a certain level of profit. They should have to earn it. Every step of the way.

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Re:AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iO... by judge2020 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @11:17AM (#27570842)

I’m just saying - where does it stop? Would Sony or MS need to allow other app stores if they made a hardware profit of $1? $100? $600[0]?

0: Tony Chen suggests that their anti piracy measures only need to account for attacks that would be cheaper than purchasing 10 games https://youtu.be/U7VwtOrwceo

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Re:AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iO... by hnra on Sunday June 20, 2021 @12:14PM (#27571461)

Why would it affect Sony or MS at all? Gaming is thriving market, not an unregulated duopoly. When market power becomes so great it negatively affects consumers we step in with anti trust regulation.

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Re:AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iO... by ThePhysicist on Sunday June 20, 2021 @09:49AM (#27569928)

Are you serious about this? They charge 400 USD for a plastic keyboard. I have a hard time believing these are subsidized prices, Apple has some of the highest profit margins in tech, some say only the drug cartels generate more profit per dollar of revenue.

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Re:AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iO... by judge2020 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @09:58AM (#27570008)

You could say the same for the Maserati Ghibi which is inferior to BMW 5 series cars in nearly every way but costs tens of thousands more. If you think the profit margins are too large you can just not buy that product.

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Re:AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iO... by austhrow743 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @10:06AM (#27570104)

>You could say the same for the Maserati Ghibi which is inferior to BMW 5 series cars in nearly every way but costs tens of thousands more.

Yeah so it would be ridiculous to say that Maserati would have to increase car prices if they couldn't profit as much off of after sale services.

>If you think the profit margins are too large you can just not buy that product.

Sure. Entirely irrelevant though.

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Re:AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iO... by judge2020 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @10:24AM (#27570311)

Well, if they had to provide the same service guarantees without charging people for it, then you can bet it’d be factored into the initial price - I’m sure warranties heavily increase the price of cars since they have to do more engineering validation and testing.

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Re:AltStore – An alternative app store for non-jailbroken iO... by austhrow743 on Sunday June 20, 2021 @08:58AM (#27569509)

Apple doesn't target a particular level of profit that they refuse to exceed.

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