News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by roenxi on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:06AM (#27561062)
The real mystery for me that while trust in government remains very low & partisan fear of the other is presumably at all time highs ... at no point does anyone manage to make and carry the argument that the government is too powerful. Instead the US government keeps growing, both in the responsibilities it takes over and the share of the GDP it represents.
Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by Retric on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:22AM (#27561256)
Saying we want less government power generally means we want to change rules rather than actually reduce power. They don’t want to actually reduce governments ability to make war or jail people etc.

Even in cases where total government power is theoretically reduced say outlawing municipal broadband it’s less about reducing overall power as it is leveraging control in one area and extending it to another. In effect it’s a power grab at the state level at the expense of local governments. The state can of course change their mind at any time.

On the other side of the isle when legalizing pot, it’s not considered enough to simply make it legal and move on. Suddenly they replace one law with hundreds by micro managing exactly what’s allowed and what hoops people are forced through. In effect it’s an extension of government power into a previously unregulated though illegal industry.

Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by roenxi on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:31AM (#27561354)
> They don’t want to actually reduce governments ability to make war or jail people etc.

Fir enough. Put it another way. People look at this institution which can't balance a budget, is typically controlled by lunatics between 30-60% of the time and which apparently nobody really trusts. And it is controlled by billionaire oligarchs and the worst of the entrenched business interests.

They then think "gee, this is the group I want to actively administer my municipal broadband. Nobody better!".

I'm fairly open that I don't like governments. But how do the people who don't trust the thing square that with then calling for it to be actively involved in all sorts of random stuff? What is the thought process here?

Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by orwin on Saturday June 19, 2021 @12:42PM (#27562020)
> People look at this institution which can't balance a budget

The issue with this is that most people, and even economists (well, mostly old economists rotting away from the research and debate the field is having right now) don't understand that you don't make a government budget like you make a home budget. Hell, you don't even make a government budget like you make a multinational company budget. People who don't even try to understand how bank works should not have any say in this.

Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by candiodari on Sunday June 20, 2021 @09:18AM (#27569650)
This only goes for the central bank, so this only applies, partially, to the Federal government. Every other government, certainly municipal or state governments, have budgets that do work like a "home budget" (more like a very large company I'd say, but fair enough, if you had a $100 million/billion household, it would probably be similar).

Second, you're making this argument to advocate for more spending. You're not referring to the alternate rules. So let's see: what are the rules for central bank spending, and what do they say now?

The alternative set of rules: spending inversely proportional to the distance between inflation and the inflation target (ie. 2%). Inflation is over 2%, yes, sounds unbelievable but it is [1], hence ... the central bank should seriously CUT it's budget. It should NOT spend at this time (well ... spend less, for now).

So people make this argument only insofar it benefits more government spending. If one were to describe the current spending situation "due to lack of inflation in the past 10 years or so, the government has massively increased spending through the central bank, if the recent inflation doesn't back down in 2-3 months or so, the central bank budget will need to be cut by a LOT, and soon".

What the rules say, is that the government, in the last 10 or so years (a bit less), should have used tax money to lower the national debt and now should increase that debt (and raise taxes in 2-3 years) to spend.

The FED, btw, has already announced they will in fact be cutting spending by a lot next year, BTW. They are scared they have severely overdone it, so I would be expecting a large cut rather than a small one. So you're warned. The government (including, for that matter, EU governments) will be cutting spending next year, you won't get a raise, but inflation will rise. Except, perhaps, if you're living in one of the countries that benefit from this (last time especially Australia spectacularly benefitted: they bought their way out of the housing crisis, essentially for free).

[1] https://ycharts.com/indicators/us_inflation_rate#:~:text=US%....

Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by thatguy0900 on Saturday June 19, 2021 @08:49PM (#27565985)
"People look at this institution which can't balance a budget, is typically controlled by lunatics between 30-60% of the time and which apparently nobody really trusts." While that's true, the management of att and Comcast are worse. The gov is incompetent but they are actively malicious. There are no good guys in this fight. And at least you can in theory vote about how the government handles it.
Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by Retric on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:53AM (#27561555)
I think the argument goes like this. Either their local government is well run even if the state and or federal government is a mess local services like water and sewer just work fine. Alternatively, they think their local ISP is terrible and while they dislike their local government it seems slightly more competent.

That’s not to say their correct, but I am saying what’s actually happening is a power grab even if it’s spoken of as reducing power.

Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by mc32 on Saturday June 19, 2021 @12:37PM (#27561982)
>” They don’t want to actually reduce governments ability to make war or jail people etc.”

I believe Ron and Rand Paul do indeed want that.

Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by Retric on Saturday June 19, 2021 @03:19PM (#27563533)
Not really.

Paul's 2016 plan would have set the Pentagon budget to $697 Billion, a significant spending increase. Honestly though +/- even 30% is largely irrelevant in terms of military budgets. Look up what it would take to drop us to even 2nd place in military spending.

Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by mieses on Sunday June 20, 2021 @05:40PM (#27574169)
Rand is different from Ron on this issue but it's a realistic compromise. You won't be freely trading with neighbors if the Chinese navy is overseeing global shipping.
Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by Retric on Sunday June 20, 2021 @08:56PM (#27575236)
I doubt the Chinese are going to use their navy to cut off China>US trade. It’s true it might cost us Taiwan, but a 90% cut in US military spending would be a massive boon for the economy.

Though even a 90% cut would still allow for a truly US frightening military so it’s hard to quantify.

Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by clairity on Saturday June 19, 2021 @01:41PM (#27562529)
power concentration borne of misplaced and distracted concern is the primary social challenge of our time, as well as throughout history. power distorts institutions of all sorts, redirecting resources toward self-serving aims and away from the collective good. it subverts governments, businesses, collectives, religions, tribes, and everything else. it requires constant vigilance and resistance--it's the one thing we're never safe from. yet, we allow the powerful to manufacture boogeymen like terrorists, drugs, wmd's, pedophiles, mass shootings, and pandemics as safety theater misdirections distracting us from this very central threat to our personal and collective freedoms.

we need human-scale and human-accountable institutions, not conglomerates amassing more and more power against the populace. when considered more deeply, no human endeavor really requires extra-human concentration and centralized control, no matter how much justification is put forth. there's no insurmountable reason a mars mission or pandemic response, for instance, can't be loosely coordinated among small and medium sized organizations, rather than a single, or a few, large institutions.

to get those kinds of human-scale and responsive institutions, we each have to actively work to keep organizations in check, each in our own little way. it's a literal sisyphean task, but one that we can't collectively shirk without dire consequences, as we've seen throughout history. it's an integral if inconvenient part of the human condition.

Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by canjobear on Saturday June 19, 2021 @01:23PM (#27562371)
People want to make their own side more powerful so that it can constrain and defeat the evil other side. The result is growth of power of both sides.
Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by brightball on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:13AM (#27561154)
Only Libertarians it seems
Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by karaterobot on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:38AM (#27561419)
I wonder why you're being downvoted. Sometimes HN is funny. I'm not a libertarian, but it seems like one of the things people criticize (and often make fun of) them for is consistently wanting smaller government. So, with certain marginal exceptions, your statement is essentially true, and I think it's worth pointing out in this case.
Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by mistermann on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:18AM (#27561212)
A few others here and there, like Curtis Yarvin:

https://graymirror.substack.com/

Re:Declining trust in government is denting democracy (2017) by pydry on Saturday June 19, 2021 @11:36AM (#27561403)
It's a point that's made all the damn time. It originated from Koch foundations where they were trying to land upon some talking points which could be used to chip away at the EPC - as part of their long standing war with the institution that impeded their ability to pollute with impunity.

The useful thing about the talking point is that it gives full license to the politician about what to cut if they implement it. If what you really want to cut is the EPC and medicare, well, that's what people are clamoring for. Apparently.