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Re:As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity ha... by tonymet on Saturday June 12, 2021 @08:26PM (#27488644)
Did not intend to troll. The “cognitive tools” are the ability to discern which beliefs are religious in nature: taken on faith, ritualistic, ethical , etc.

Again I’m not saying that religion is better or worse. Actually this is a defense of religion as a framework for defining belief.

I’m arguing that secularism when taken on face value lacks the tools to recognize it’s own belief system.

Re:As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity ha... by samhain on Saturday June 12, 2021 @11:44PM (#27489570)
I agree with the parent, you’re argument almost appears disingenuous to the point of looking like a troll or bait. This perspective is substituting any belief with a religious belief which is a false equivalency. It’s unfortunate that the grandparent is the top comment right now.
Re:As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity ha... by tonymet on Sunday June 13, 2021 @12:47AM (#27489818)
Can you share profound beliefs that you don't believe are religious in nature?

I know trivial beliefs e.g. today was 85º – we can agree that calling those religious would not be useful.

Re:As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity ha... by samhain on Sunday June 13, 2021 @01:18AM (#27489953)
Check your original comment. You did not qualify that only “profound secular beliefs” are religious in nature. Rather, you speak in general saying “secular beliefs are religious.” So now you’re moving the goal posts.

Using your original logic, -any- belief can be religious in nature. “Today was 85” -is- religious from your original position because perhaps people ritualistically check the weather every morning like a prayer. The weathermen are like priests disseminating knowledge, and small talk is used to find other weather checker cultists.

It does not matter what belief Id offer up, because it will match your original definition because your original definition is so broad as to be meaningless. Other comments have already said this in fewer words. If you are unable to identify what it would look like if you were mistaken, then you shouldn’t be confident that you are correct. So how could someone identify the difference between a secular belief and a religious belief?

Re:As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity ha... by morelisp on Sunday June 13, 2021 @04:53AM (#27490946)
The Church-Turing thesis? That ZFC is consistent? That the driving force of history is primarily material relations between groups?
Re:As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity ha... by vincent-toups on Sunday June 13, 2021 @09:02AM (#27492224)
"I’m arguing that secularism when taken on face value lacks the tools to recognize it’s own belief system."

Truly a bonkers assertion when secularism includes enormous institutions to fund and perform tasks as various as the hard sciences to the most abstract philosophical investigations and the entire gamut of cultural production around and between.

The average person doesn't much participate in these institutions but the average Catholic hasn't read Humanea Vitae either.

Re:As religious faith has declined, ideological intensity ha... by conformist on Sunday June 13, 2021 @10:27AM (#27492889)
It decidedly does not generally lack these tools. A main point of many popular secular(ist) believe systems, e.g. such represented by humanist societies, is to question implicit assumptions and understand what fundamental philosophical believes one has, and they are built around how to do this.

People are often not secularist because they don't reflect, usually they have specific reasons that they are aware of and that they might question in the future.