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Re:Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines by adventured on Thursday June 10, 2021 @07:12PM (#27467225)
It is bullshit. It helps to create an atmosphere where you can't ask questions or debate.

I'm entirely pro-vaccines. However, I'm simultaneously entirely in favor of people asking questions, no matter what their intentions are. Their intentions do not matter. You either know your stuff or you do not. It's always better to draw out the eg anti-vaccine types. If something is defensible, then don't be a coward about it, don't be lazy, respond with a decent answer. Put in some effort. Use it as an exercise for your own brain, your own beliefs, your own ability to discuss and debate in an (ideally) civil society. Only the anti-vaccine arguments benefit from not doing that.

The shut-down angle always comes from cowardice and or intellectual weakness. You can tell a lot about someone by whether they're terrified of a discussion. Shut-down attempts are meant to evade personal shame (and more rarely to avoid putting in the time/effort), while preserving an intellectual or moral foundation established by someone else who did put in the effort.

Nearly all shut-down attempts come from weakness. If the position is important, such as vaccines, then that weakness only encourages the skeptics even more. They can practically sense it. The right thing to do is to engage and push back with facts (and or even links, with which all the hidden passive readers can go make up their own minds as to whether they agree or not), even if you don't have all day to argue a topic.

Re:Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines by krastanov on Thursday June 10, 2021 @07:18PM (#27467294)
I like your idealism, but there are plenty of tactics that would make even the most knowledgeable person look like a fool, because knowledge and oratory skills are completely separate: my favorite example is the gish gallop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop

This is why good journalists do not invite a "flat earther" and a "nasa scientists" when discussing, e.g., climate change. Because those organizing debates have a responsibility to ensure the debate is based on facts, not on oratory skills.

Re:Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines by walrus01 on Thursday June 10, 2021 @07:16PM (#27467275)
I don't know what your experience has been, but I would wager good money that nearly every anti-vaccine person I have encountered has nearly zero capacity to have their opinion changed by properly formatted scientific evidence and experts presented in a rational, logical way. They are firmly set in their bubble of conspiracy theory rhetoric. You could literally bring an expert panel of eight virologists and epidemiologists in front of them, face to face, and they would still stick to their position. In summary, a real waste of time.

For some of them, their entire method of operation is to waste your time, troll, and gain acclaim from their own hardcore fan base by doing so.

I'm sorry to say that I have no time and effort left on my part for anything other than low effort mockery and derision of people engaging in infowars/hardcore conspiracy theory stuff.

Re:Linus Torvalds on mRNA Vaccines by ShroudedNight on Thursday June 10, 2021 @09:54PM (#27468482)
The only (limited) success I've had moving emotionally-held models of belief is specifically exploring what signals would be present if the competing models were incorrect. By focusing on falsifiability and reconciling it with reality, I've _sometimes_ managed to have my counter-party downgrade their argument from scientific surety to human behavioural expections in some key ambiguous situation.