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Re:Software is eating the car by _jal on Thursday June 10, 2021 @04:06PM (#27465122)
Lawyers tend to love it when their opponents think they've found a cute legal hack.
Re:Software is eating the car by lamontcg on Thursday June 10, 2021 @04:44PM (#27465553)
Most people don't seem to understand that the laws are interpreted by human beings that have spent their entire lives studying and applying the law.

Particularly us geeky folk often seem to think that you can find a buffer overflow exploit in the literal wording of the law and the judge will have to let you go. That usually isn't how it works (although the odd case where someone successfully exploits the actual verbiage in the law tends to make headlines and make it seem like that is how it works).

Re:Software is eating the car by jasonwatkinspdx on Thursday June 10, 2021 @06:20PM (#27466564)
So much this. Judges tend to respond very poorly to "but you didn't say Simon Says" style arguments.
Re:Software is eating the car by numpad0 on Thursday June 10, 2021 @11:42PM (#27469046)
How can we transform the society to fix that then? /s
Re:Software is eating the car by adrianN on Friday June 11, 2021 @02:25AM (#27469974)
Simple, replace judges with AIs. Possibly on the blockchain. Code is law.
Re:Software is eating the car by jasonwatkinspdx on Friday June 11, 2021 @11:22PM (#27481210)
I really hope this is just sarcasm :)
Re:Software is eating the car by pessimizer on Thursday June 10, 2021 @07:53PM (#27467602)
That's not a cute legal hack. Not retaining any information that is not useful and has the potential to be incriminating, unless legally required to, is what every smart company or government agency does. You find the relevant laws, then you write a retention policy.
Re:Software is eating the car by ClumsyPilot on Thursday June 10, 2021 @09:19PM (#27468238)
It's not about information, it's about the user being harassed untill someone clicks "accept" button, which is not compatible with "dealing in good faith"

Do you have proof they clicked it, and not their kid? Did they intend to consent, or click the button by accident/ spilled coffee on the touchscreen?

How can we trust your code at all, if all users say the rejected the contract multiple times, and you claim they accepted it and you are the one that stands to benefit from their acceptance, maybe you are lying? Maybe your system is unreliable?

Is it even legal to use the user's property - i.e. their car - to disturb their peace? If you were to post them a letter, you do it at your expense, but now you are doing it at their expense, they are paying to electricity and data to display those pixels for your benefit.

Re:Software is eating the car by watt on Saturday June 12, 2021 @05:51AM (#27483152)
Sorry, on who's side are you really on?
Re:Software is eating the car by Judgmentality on Thursday June 10, 2021 @04:17PM (#27465242)
IANAL, but I'm curious if you are. In my experience, lawyers tend to get a lot done by intimidation. Remember all those ridiculous lawsuits from the RIAA over downloading illegal music? Well, it turns out when people actually took them to court they won every time. But people settled out of fear.

Sure, if the lawyers are actually trying to do things legally first and adhering to the letter of the law, I'm sure they're happy to have their efforts challenged. But I have never, ever, in my life encountered a lawyer who worked this way (and I have lawyers in my family, I've been to court, I've personally hired several, blah blah blah). I am not saying they don't know the law, but they use their greater knowledge of the law to their advantage. Their goal isn't transparency, it's submission.

Re:Software is eating the car by majormajor on Thursday June 10, 2021 @05:12PM (#27465929)
> Remember all those ridiculous lawsuits from the RIAA over downloading illegal music? Well, it turns out when people actually took them to court they won every time. But people settled out of fear.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Records,_Inc._v._Thoma...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_v._Tenenbaum

These were widely covered because most people just settled, and there were high hopes for something putting a damper on the lawsuits... from the page about the second case " It was only the second file-sharing case (after Capitol v. Thomas) to go to verdict in the Recording Industry Association of America's (RIAA) anti-downloading litigation campaign"

So 2 for 2 there were found in favor of the RIAA, for huge damages even after appeal.

More recently, even ISPs are getting hit hard: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/06/1-billion-piracy...

Re:Software is eating the car by at-fates-hands on Thursday June 10, 2021 @08:20PM (#27467785)
As I remember those times, they didn't go after people for simply downloading music, they were going after the people who were actively distributing music on file sharing services.

There's a much harder burden of proof for the RIAA when they sue people over simply downloading songs or albums when the user can easily make the case for fair use. I mean, how many albums, 8-tracks, cassettes and CD's did you buy of the same artist and album? I know I did it thousands of times.

The burden gets a lot easier when you can show the person was actively distributing essentially pirated music to other users - propagating what is by legal definition, illegal activity.

Re:Software is eating the car by wolverine876 on Friday June 11, 2021 @12:37AM (#27469346)
> As I remember those times, they didn't go after people for simply downloading music, they were going after the people who were actively distributing music on file sharing services.

As I remember, at least some cases were complete BS. Some people hardly knew what file sharing was.

Re:Software is eating the car by kiba on Thursday June 10, 2021 @04:26PM (#27465335)
Actually people lost. But it doesn't matter anyway because the RIAA can't collect it, and the debt was basically the lowest priority.
Re:Software is eating the car by Judgmentality on Thursday June 10, 2021 @04:37PM (#27465464)
Do you have a link? I'm trying to dig up stories on it, but it's so stale. As far as I can tell almost everybody settled, and the few that fought in court eventually won.

https://www.wired.com/2010/05/riaa-bump/

Re:Software is eating the car by mentalpiracy on Thursday June 10, 2021 @06:35PM (#27466746)
Re:Software is eating the car by _jal on Thursday June 10, 2021 @04:35PM (#27465437)
I am not. I work with lots of them.

I think we're talking about two different things. Yes, the RIAA was running an intimidation campaign. By and large they didn't care about any particular case.

That's quite different than a plaintiff coming at a car manufacturer over sketchy click-wrap agreements.

Re:Software is eating the car by Judgmentality on Thursday June 10, 2021 @04:40PM (#27465502)
Your comment was about lawyers. I gave a random anecdote. We're not talking about different things at all, unless your comment was only about specific lawyers which you failed to mention.

Anyway, I don't care enough to comment anymore.

Re:Software is eating the car by _jal on Thursday June 10, 2021 @05:16PM (#27465972)
I'll remember not to care to reply in the first place.