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Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by bmmayer1 on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:22PM (#27440265)
How is Google a monopoly? Serious question.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by tyingq on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:27PM (#27440321)
Senator Herb Kohl: But you do recognize that in the words that are used and antitrust kind of oversight, your market share constitutes monopoly, dominant -- special power dominant for a monopoly firm. You recognize you're in that area?

Eric Shmidt: I would agree, sir, that we’re in that area....I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of monopoly findings is this is a judicial process.

From: https://www.businessinsider.com/is-google-a-monopoly-were-in...

Also, the FTC's initial memo from 2012 that somebody higher up in the food chain quashed is pretty interesting: http://graphics.wsj.com/google-ftc-report/

In short, dominant market share in web search. Though I think you could argue other things, like dominance in affordable smart phones. Android is effectively a monopoly for people that can't afford an iPhone.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by minsc__and__boo on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @10:46PM (#27443671)
Being popular != Monopoly

Having Market Share Dominance != Monopoly

Being a monopoly means having sole control over the supply of a market (conversely, Monopsony is demand). When people say Bing, Baidu, DDG, Yahoo, DDG, etc. are all a click a way, that means Google does not control the market supply.

Just because the majority of people choose to use something on an open market doesn't mean that thing has a monopoly.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by tyingq on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @11:00PM (#27443751)
Schmidt seems concerned they are in that territory. Also, the document I linked to, presumably written by people with deep expertise on the topic, has several relevant sections. One excerpt:

===

A. GOOGLE HAS MONOPOLY POWER IN RELEVANT MARKETS

A firm is a monopolist if it can profitably raise prices substantially above the competitive level. [M]onopoly power may be inferred from a firm's possesion of a dominant share of a relevant market that is protected by entry barriers. Google has monopoly power in one or more properly defined markets...Staff has identified three relevant antitrust markets...

===

I think it's at least fair to say that some people with expertise in the space feel like Google could have monopoly control over one or more markets.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by minsc__and__boo on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @11:22PM (#27443870)
Eric Schmidt is not Google.

Also, a half-redacted document written by an anonymous person that was accidentally released almost a decade ago does not change the definition of a monopoly.

Yes, you can assume that it's written by someone who knows what they're talking about, just as much as you can also presume they were wrong because it was squashed. That's a moot argument.

None of that changes the fact that being popular does not make something a monopoly.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by tyingq on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @11:33PM (#27443928)
"popular does not make something a monopoly"

I didn't say that, though, or anything like that.

I did mention market share dominance. But that's often related to things like "A firm is a monopolist if it can profitably raise prices substantially above the competitive level.".

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by minsc__and__boo on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @11:34PM (#27443935)
>In short, dominant market share in web search.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27440321#27443928

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by tyingq on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @11:37PM (#27443955)
The word "popular" is where?

"may be inferred from a firm's possesion of a dominant share of a relevant market that is protected by entry barriers"

Arguably I left out "protected by entry barriers", but that seems obvious for search.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by minsc__and__boo on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @11:38PM (#27443962)
Dominant market share is reflective of being the popular consumer choice, given the easily accessible supply of other search engines.

You're splitting hairs over the word popular now.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by tyingq on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @12:30AM (#27444230)
It's more complicated than that, though.

For example: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/7273448-DOC.html (page 3)

I'm not saying they are "for sure" a monopoly. I am saying notable numbers of reasonable people with expertise in the space think they are. It's not as clear cut as you're saying.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by minsc__and__boo on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @02:15AM (#27444785)
You gave an example of monopoly, one of which is definitively not a monopoly.

This entirely new example you are giving is an example of partisan posturing, not evidence of a monopoly. Look at the political affiliation of every single person who signed the letter, and look how many days it was filed before the last federal election.

Again, being popular doesn't make something a monopoly, neither does being a popular target for Republicans.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by bananabreakfast on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:31PM (#27440372)
Google would argue that web search is not their market. They are in the business of online advertising in which they most definitely do not have dominant market share.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by croes on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:35PM (#27440416)
Yeah, that's why to google something means advertising and not searching for something on the internet. No, wait ...
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by tyingq on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:33PM (#27440389)
I can't say for sure whether they have a monopoly, but it's interesting that Eric Schmidt can't either.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by sneak on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:39PM (#27440471)
Google also doesn't have a monopoly on search.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by aetherson on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:29PM (#27440350)
Google controls the vast majority of the web search market. More than 90%. What exactly a monopoly constitutes is something that people can disagree about, but "has 90% market share" is not by any means a crazy definition of a monopoly.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by minsc__and__boo on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @10:48PM (#27443679)
Just having dominant market share does not make one a monopoly. Google would have to control the supply of all the search engines to have a monopoly (which they don't).
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by yeetman21 on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:34PM (#27440405)
Google doesnt make money of web searches, it makes money off ads, which it competes with fb and others for
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by loup-vaillant on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @05:34PM (#27441180)
Maybe a lawyer can say that with a straight face, but I'm a human being.

Google ad revenues mostly come from 3 services: Gmail, which holds a disproportionate share of all email for what started out as a federated network. YouTube, which basically holds a monopoly on video sharing. And Google search, which basically holds a monopoly on regular web searches.

I count at least 2 monopolies here, both held by Alphabet. The fact that Facebook is able to make advertisement in some other part of the web is immaterial, the same way TV ads are immaterial.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by bananabreakfast on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:34PM (#27440408)
But market share of what? No one pays for web search so that's not really a market.

Facebook has 90%+ market share of social media. Do they have a monopoly?

GitHub has a 90%+ market share of open source code hosting. Do they have a monopoly?

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by cpu_architect on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:45PM (#27440549)
Markets are not necessarily based on money; they are about exchange. In the web search market, users exchange their attention for search results.

I don’t know whether this kind of market dominance factors into the legal determination of monopoly, but conceptually I think it makes sense to say that Google has a monopoly in the web search market.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by anders_p on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @09:50PM (#27443329)
> But market share of what? No one pays for web search so that's not really a market.

The customer in a web search isn't the USER. It's the BUISINESSES whose ads are placed on the search results page.

THEY are certainly paying for the web search.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by ping_pong on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @02:06AM (#27444726)
If a business gets deindexed by Google or its search ranking drops, their income plummets. It's pretty obvious they are a monopoly and have monopolistic power.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by tomcooks on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:28PM (#27440341)
Try to get people to use your software, or read your books, or buy your merchandise, etc. without using Google.

They own the highway, the restaurants along the way, the billboards and even the car most people drive.

Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by lottin on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @04:31PM (#27440373)
Google is not a monopoly, but it has enough market power to be a reason for concern.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by minsc__and__boo on Tuesday June 08, 2021 @10:49PM (#27443691)
Anti trust laws are written to protect consumers, not inferior competitors.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by ping_pong on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @02:08AM (#27444740)
Yes. And Google is engaging in monopolistic behavior by getting rid of any semblance of customer service. This is a direct result of their monopoly because businesses and customers have no viable alternative. So they can save billions by cutting customer support to near zero. That's the same as raising prices with impunity.
Re:Ohio sues Google, seeks to declare the internet company a... by minsc__and__boo on Wednesday June 09, 2021 @02:11AM (#27444756)
Poor customer service is not monopolistic behavior.

If consumers preferred a search engine with good customer service, they would use the search engine with better customer service instead.