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Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by Glavnokoman on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:24AM (#27420589)
In the end market should take of this. If repairability is a major concern for the farmers they would just eventually buy the tractors with less of a high-tech bells and whistles. And also cheaper I guess.
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by ClumsyPilot on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:35AM (#27420660)
Pleasse stop rehashing free market platitudes without any thinking.

Look at the actual manufacturers, realise that noone is producing simple tractors any more, where are they going to come from?

Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by vbezhenar on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:42AM (#27420690)
Belarus produces simple and cheap tractors since forever, they are popular in Russia and other CIS countries. Just import them.
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by ClumsyPilot on Monday June 07, 2021 @06:50AM (#27421065)
I dont think "just import them" covers the difficulties a lone farmer would have in transport, customs, language barrier and maintenance of a fairly random piece of equipment across an ocean that is also critical for their primary source of income.

And imagine you have a warranty dispute or similar

Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by petewailes on Monday June 07, 2021 @06:54AM (#27421088)
Belarus are already imported into the US, as I recall.
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by ClumsyPilot on Monday June 07, 2021 @07:36AM (#27421339)
Oh, i didnt realise that
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by petewailes on Monday June 07, 2021 @06:06AM (#27420812)
An old Belarus 420A is a simple tractor. Even a modern 742 or 1220 isn't that complex. But it's simply not as capable as a Fastrac 4 or 8 series, or a Valtra N or C series, or a Deere 6, 7 or 8 series for example. They're just not in the same league in terms of what they can do with tool management, fitness for specific tasks or tool interop.

As a single example, there's nothing that Belarus make that I'd want to use for buckraking a heap of any real size. They don't have a JCB 435S equivalent, or a heavier Fendt or Claas.

They're great tools, but you're not going to get the hectares per hour of sowing or harvest or the movement of tonnage of the modern competitors.

Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by cowl on Monday June 07, 2021 @06:55AM (#27421091)
But isn't this self-defeating reasoning? on one side you say things need to be simpler to repair, on the other you say simple technology doesn't cover your needs. A lot of these advanced features are so complex and so intertwined to each other that you really want only a qualified person to be able to "try to fix it"
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by ClumsyPilot on Monday June 07, 2021 @02:53PM (#27426554)
The whole complexity narrative is false pretenses.

The new tractors contain computers and need tools. Manufacturers refuse to sell tools and placed equivalent of DRM on computers to stop you repairing your tractor on purpose. They make their supplirs sign contracts where the supplier is not allowed to sell parts to anyone else. None of these issues are due to complexity, all of them about you loose property rights over your possessions and turning physical goods into a subscribtion model

Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by sequesteredmar on Monday June 07, 2021 @07:58AM (#27421504)
Should there not be the option to break whatever you own however you want to? People who know they can fix X should be allowed to fix X
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by cowl on Monday June 07, 2021 @09:27AM (#27422319)
You surely are allowed to break it if you want at the cost of loosing the waranty. If you mean you want to be able to break it and still have the waranty then no.
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by Glavnokoman on Monday June 07, 2021 @01:52PM (#27425716)
Please stop attribute anything confronting your believes to lack of thinking. And if you are not aware of something that does not mean it does not exist (look for Belarus tractor references it the thread below). Even if they did not exist there is nothing (or should be nothing) stopping one from being created.
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by edulix on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:45AM (#27420707)
So farmers would buy in mass simple tractors, making the manufacturer that does it alone rich amasing a huge segment of the market.

But no manufacturer wants to do it. And no venture capital wants to finance such thing. Because.. I guess.. these evil capitalists just don't want to make more money.

Is that the argument? That capitalists don't want to make more money?

Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by MikeUt on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:49AM (#27420727)
From another comment: "Deere is the worst in this, but the rest of the industry isn't anywhere near as good as it should be."

So no, the argument isn't that they don't want to make money. The argument is that they do, and realize that tacitly colluding will make them more money than undercutting each-other.

Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by xxs on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:51AM (#27420734)
Most of the time it's not possible to produce new equipment without patent licenses even if everything else came into places. Assuming a new honest player that won't collude...
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by zwirbl on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:26AM (#27420601)
It should, but will it? The magically all-mighty market does not fix all problems without intervention
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by Glavnokoman on Monday June 07, 2021 @01:55PM (#27425741)
It probably won't. But that does not dismiss that it should :).
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by nspattak on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:31AM (#27420634)
This is an oversimplification that overlooks at automotive engineering history (if not history in general). Are there 2T engines or Wankel engines available for people to choose?
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by WalterBright on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:47AM (#27420717)
Heavy regulation of the automotive industry is why I can't buy a new Dodge Coronet.
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by petewailes on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:34AM (#27420653)
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't live in a farming community...
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by patrickmclaren on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:32AM (#27420641)
Can you expand on how this would come to be, in practice?
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by apples_oranges on Monday June 07, 2021 @05:57AM (#27420763)
Well, it's not that hard to imagine, is it? Someone founds a company that produces tractors but they are simpler, cheaper and can be repaired. If that's what customers want, they _will_ gain market share. If not, then the demand isn't there.
Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by wccrawford on Monday June 07, 2021 @08:05AM (#27421556)
Then the next argument would be that John Deere is destroying competition by artificially selling their tractors below cost, making it impossible to compete with them.

Because yeah, that's what you do when you recoup the rest of the cost in the subscription/maintenance.

It's the same model that game consoles use to keep the hardware costs low. They make it up in the game and peripheral licensing fees.

If JD dropped the subscriptions, but instead charged full price for the tractors, people would just scream about the prices instead.

I actually agree that farmers should legally be able to repair their own tractors, or have anyone else do it. But gaining that "right" back wouldn't actually fix their complaints, just shift them.

Re:Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors by xxs on Monday June 07, 2021 @06:07AM (#27420816)
...and of course, there will be zero patents infringed that would cause no injunction.