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Re:Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity... by refenestrator on Sunday June 06, 2021 @06:58PM (#27417130)
Not sure if you're aware, but way back when the ACLU supported Nazis right to march on pragmatic as well as principled grounds.

If WE are stopping the BAD GUYS from marching on OUR turf, then what precedent does that set for permitting a civil rights march in Selma?

Re:Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity... by dale_glass on Sunday June 06, 2021 @07:28PM (#27417346)
The way I read that is that the pragmatic bit is the true reason, deep down.

Most of us aren't pure-logic Kantian robots. We have a goal in mind that's beyond simply being logically consistent. When we form an organization that sometimes defends the Nazis, we're not doing it because our only motivation is that some rights are absolutely inviolable no matter what. We do it for mostly pragmatic reasons, such as the one you've outlined. If the Nazis get a fair trial, then that helps ensure that we also do. If we make too bad of a law to use against the Nazis, we could end up as victims of it some day. Defending the Nazis is ultimately a means to the end of achieving a good society for us to live in.

That's why whenever the true end of doing such things starts being endangered, principles start faltering.

Re:Once a bastion of free speech, the ACLU faces an identity... by refenestrator on Sunday June 06, 2021 @07:54PM (#27417498)
All principles are rooted in that kind of pragmatism, starting with thou shalt not kill.

And it's valuable. Barely a year after getting people fired for takes was popularized during BLM, we see the cannon turned on journalists who wrote a pro-palestine essay in college. Nobody could have predicted it.