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Re:Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box ... by bradleyjg on Sunday May 30, 2021 @11:00AM (#27333720)
At the end of the day your remedy is to sue someone. Everything else is a courtesy shortcut.
Re:Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box ... by franga2000 on Sunday May 30, 2021 @11:09AM (#27333789)
I don't know about you, but where I'm from, consumer protection laws exist specifically so consumers don't have to sue in these cases. Providing a fair refund process is their legal duty, not a courtesy.
Re:Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box ... by r00fus on Sunday May 30, 2021 @11:46AM (#27334041)
Why is Amazon allowed to conflate inventory (Fulfilled by Amazon) without any legal issues? It almost seems they’re above the law. Why would they be legally required to follow customer protection laws?
Re:Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box ... by asimpletune on Sunday May 30, 2021 @11:42AM (#27334015)
To me about how these infractions can be enforced without suing though?
Re:Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box ... by chongli on Sunday May 30, 2021 @12:03PM (#27334169)
The point is that it shouldn’t be the aggrieved consumer filing the lawsuit, it should be the powerful regulator with potential fines tied to a percentage of company revenue.
Re:Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box ... by asimpletune on Sunday May 30, 2021 @09:21PM (#27338883)
I wasn’t trying to suggest otherwise at all. I literally just don’t understand how consumer protection laws are supposed to work, and was wondering if the parent knew of some way to enforce what’s right without having to take them to court.
Re:Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box ... by miracle2k on Sunday May 30, 2021 @12:13PM (#27334252)
I don't see regulation being the issue here.

The law will oblige either of the two sides to carry the burden of proof. Either Amazon has to proof the package was delivered, or the customer has to proof it wasn't. If the other sides does not accept the proof received, it has to sue.

Re:Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box ... by macintux on Sunday May 30, 2021 @01:10PM (#27334703)
You can't prove a negative. There's effectively no way for a customer to prove a package wasn't delivered.

Update: I should be clear, the shipper can prove it. The customer themselves can't without the shipper's acquiescence.

Re:Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box ... by tharkun__ on Sunday May 30, 2021 @02:53PM (#27335554)
Nobody can really prove it. But each side can have some supporting evidence.

The shipper might be able to prove that the transport company picked up a package. Beyond that it's all hearsay if we are talking about fraudulent sellers.

The transport company might have evidence of a tracking number and thus most probably an actual package making it through the system. Shipments do get lost or stolen though. No way to prove anything really.

The customer can't prove it either. There are enough cases of packages with a tracking number having arrived at my and other people's doorsteps without the tracking ever showing that it happened. Why wouldn't the opposite be true? Driver just needs to scan package arrival not actually deliver. Of course there can be repercussions and I'd gather it's easier for a package to be stolen off other parts of the delivery chain. Anyway in this case both the shipper and customer have 'proof' / no proof to various degrees and in reality something 'fell off the truck'.

It's all about being convincing enough to whoever will be adjudicating this but 100% proof is impossible. The closest the customer could get I think would be 24h Video surveillance of their front entrance. No motion detection, just 24h continuous tape.

Re:Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box ... by mlyle on Sunday May 30, 2021 @02:04PM (#27335135)
If they make you sue when the case is clear-cut, good regulatory regimes charge punitive damages to discourage the customer-hostile behavior.
Re:Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box ... by franga2000 on Sunday May 30, 2021 @12:56PM (#27334582)
You report them to the relevant regulatory body.
Re:Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box ... by heavyset_go on Sunday May 30, 2021 @03:20PM (#27335833)
Most states' Attorneys General offices have Consumer Protection branches, as well.