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Re:Don't take on China alone, says ex-Australia PM Kevin Rudd by seanmcdirmid on Sunday May 30, 2021 @10:32AM (#27333505)
How many troops did the Americans send into Libya during its revolution? And what American units were responsible for killing Gaddafi?

Why does America always get blamed for the Libya when we (and the rest of the world) were just spectators to a country falling apart due to an internal revolution? America supported the revolution, sure, they even provided some air support, but it was by no means much of a military player in it, it didn’t set it into action. China was only pissed off about this because they had lots of deals with Gaddafi at the time, they didn’t care how unstable the regime was (most authoritarian regimes that aren’t China are incredibly unstable) and got burned for it.

The same with Syria. Again, nothing started by the USA or any other country, internal revolution caused by unstable authoritarian regime, which coincidentally made a lot of business deals with China because everyone else was wary of dealing with them. We’ve seen this before, we will see it again. They’ll happen regardless of whether the USA or Russia get involved.

Re:Don't take on China alone, says ex-Australia PM Kevin Rudd by refenestrator on Sunday May 30, 2021 @10:49AM (#27333633)
"NATO flew 26,500 sorties since it took charge of the Libya mission on 31 March 2011."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_...

Re:Don't take on China alone, says ex-Australia PM Kevin Rudd by rjzzleep on Sunday May 30, 2021 @11:44AM (#27334027)
"The U.S. dropped an average of 72 bombs every day — the equivalent of three an hour — in 2016, according to an analysis of American strikes around the world."[1]

US, UK and France dropped so many bombs on Lybia they ran out and Germany happily restocked them.[2]

[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-bombed-iraq-syria-pak...

[2] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/86...

Re:Don't take on China alone, says ex-Australia PM Kevin Rudd by seanmcdirmid on Sunday May 30, 2021 @11:05AM (#27333757)
Yes, air strikes. A sortie could just be a drone, do you really believe those made the revolution successful?
Re:Don't take on China alone, says ex-Australia PM Kevin Rudd by djbebs on Sunday May 30, 2021 @11:09AM (#27333787)
Are you genuinely trying to argue that air strikes had no impact on the war in Libya?
Re:Don't take on China alone, says ex-Australia PM Kevin Rudd by seanmcdirmid on Sunday May 30, 2021 @11:20AM (#27333865)
No, just that they didn’t make them successful. Without the rebels, the revolution would have failed, and even with them, it would have failed if they weren’t numerous enough. I don’t think the air strikes did much more than show some support for them, they were useful and made things easier but not material in its success.
Re:Don't take on China alone, says ex-Australia PM Kevin Rudd by tharkun__ on Sunday May 30, 2021 @11:56AM (#27334113)
I find this back and forth weird. It seems to me that you are saying that the air strikes did not make the revolution successful because it also needed troops on the ground to be successful.

You are also saying that they were not material in its success. I would argue that the revolutionary ground troops would have suffered more losses if Gaddafi had had air support but the revolution didn't. Nevermind the tanks and such destroyed by NATO via air strikes. Potentially enough to make the revolution fail.

Is that not material?

Re:Don't take on China alone, says ex-Australia PM Kevin Rudd by djbebs on Sunday May 30, 2021 @11:44AM (#27334026)
You should read some more about the Libyan war, because you're significantly misinformed.

The airstrikes were absolutely crucial to the rebels victory, and no one with any idea of how the war progressed would try to claim otherwise.

Before the airstrikes qadaffis forces were overrunning the rebels and were well on their way to benghazi off the back of their armored corps and air superiority, it was the airstrikes that put a stop to that.

Re:Don't take on China alone, says ex-Australia PM Kevin Rudd by refenestrator on Sunday May 30, 2021 @11:10AM (#27333800)
We'll never know, but at that number of sorties, you figure we destroyed the regime's air power and mechanized units, aka the edge they have over a popular revolt.