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Re:Immudb 1.0 – open-source, immutable database with SQL and... by akiselev on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @03:30PM (#27281387)
> immudb doesn't actually seem to replace the use case when you need something actually tamper-proof.

I think that's an unrealistic requirement. There's tamper-evident and tamper-resistant but AFAIK nothing is tamper proof. Best you can do is an HSM with a tamper resistant HMAC with keys and a running checksum in unrecoverable ROM coupled to the packaging.

Re:Immudb 1.0 – open-source, immutable database with SQL and... by capableweb on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @04:38PM (#27282317)
> nothing is tamper proof

I beg the differ.

If I place a signed message in the Bitcoin chain, can you then modify that message?

If you can prove that you can somehow modify the message, I'll give you $1,000,000 USD tomorrow.

Re:Immudb 1.0 – open-source, immutable database with SQL and... by akiselev on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @06:19PM (#27283463)
That's "tamper proof" in the colloquial sense. As a term of art, it means something very specific. For example, see FIPS 140-2/3 [1]

It makes no sense to say that the blockchain is tamper proof because the blockchain is just information. Tamper "proofness"/resistance is first a property of the devices storing the information - once you get into custody chains, provenance documents, etc. that's when a system becomes tamper resistant. At best the blockchain as a system is "tamper evident" in the colloquial sense because the network of all the other nodes decides which bits of information form the "real" blockchain. However, without verifying the (physical) identity and data integrity of the devices that run (at least?) 50%+1 of the nodes, you have no idea whether the system has been tampered with.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIPS_140

Re:Immudb 1.0 – open-source, immutable database with SQL and... by munk-a on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @07:13PM (#27283993)
If you want to raise the bet to a few billion dollars I'll happily take you on.

But that's just a question of scale - if you have a rando-blockchain you use for immutability internally then how trivial would it be for me to spin up five servers to outhash you and rewrite history?

Re:Immudb 1.0 – open-source, immutable database with SQL and... by k_ on Tuesday May 25, 2021 @05:48PM (#27283153)
Not after you post it, but by infecting your device before you make that message, and tampering when you place it in the Bitcoin chain
Re:Immudb 1.0 – open-source, immutable database with SQL and... by capableweb on Wednesday May 26, 2021 @05:33AM (#27288234)
So you agree, once it's on the blockchain, it's tamper-proof?