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Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by newacct583 on Sunday May 23, 2021 @01:53PM (#27257014)
I'm curious what constitutes a "technical" forced landing by fighter jets. I mean, you can't "technically" force a landing at all.

Clearly what happened here is that the fake bomb threat was an excuse, and the purpose of the interceptor there was to demonstrate to the crew of the airplane that the use of force was a possibility. This plane was "forced down" by any reasonable use of the term.

> This reminds me of force landing Bolivian president’s plane in the EU flying from Moscow when they thought Edward Snowden was on the plane.

Had to correct this elsewhere: there was no forced landing there at all. They were denied airspace privileges to cross most of western europe, which isn't the same thing at all. They landed in a friendly-ish nation, and were never boarded by anyone hostile or otherwise intercepted by law enforcement.

What happened in the Snowden case was DIPLOMACY ("you may not travel here if you carry this man"), not force.

Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by FartyMcFarter on Sunday May 23, 2021 @02:05PM (#27257113)
Fighter jets can intercept a plane, and tell it to land via radio. It would be illegal for the pilots to ignore such an order while inside a country's airspace.
Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by throw0101a on Sunday May 23, 2021 @05:02PM (#27258558)
> It would be illegal for the pilots to ignore such an order while inside a country's airspace.

The pilots could report that they are having technical difficulties and are unable to override the current route programmed into the autopilot. They are also have issues disengaging the autopilot. So they are "forced" to continue their flight on their pre-filed flight plan.

Any direction from ATC would be replied with "Unable":

* https://www.boldmethod.com/blog/lists/2021/01/10-times-you-s...

* https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/7915/who-has-th...

* https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/24756/when-can-...

* https://atccommunication.com/cannot-comply-with-an-atc-clear...

Short of shooting down the plane there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by newacct583 on Sunday May 23, 2021 @02:07PM (#27257139)
Indeed, this plane was indeed intercepted and directed to land via radio. I think you're missing my point. Clearly it was forced down, technicalities notwithstanding.
Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by loceng on Sunday May 23, 2021 @02:24PM (#27257288)
Is it not highly illegal internationally to claim a false bomb threat as well? Any repercussions or do countries not keep track of bad actions like this?
Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by cortesoft on Sunday May 23, 2021 @03:21PM (#27257732)
There is no such thing as "highly illegal" international law... international law is just a set of conventions, and are enforced by each nation choosing what to do about the 'violation'. There aren't a set of prescribed penalties, and if there were, there is no one to enforce them.
Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by rich_sasha on Sunday May 23, 2021 @02:34PM (#27257368)
I guess there is no international penal code. There are treaties but for many of them, there is no enforcement-no worldwide police to knock on your door.

So repercussions tend to range from nothing, through wagging fingers, slaps on the wrist, to sanctions, UN resolutions, UN-sanctioned wars, or if you really piss someone off, non-sanctioned wars.

I don’t think Belarus will be invaded, and I guess Russia would veto any particularly nasty move in the UN, so really this leaves stern words and some unilateral sanctions against the Lukshenko regime. Doesn’t seem like overwhelming penalty (though well-targeted and enforced sanctions can bite quite badly).

Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by pc86 on Sunday May 23, 2021 @03:15PM (#27257690)
I think in this context they basically mean that there are no countries in which a fake bomb threat against an airliner isn't illegal, so whoever did this, in whatever country they happened to be, committed a serious crime.
Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by Mountain_Skies on Sunday May 23, 2021 @06:02PM (#27259037)
So someone from the Belarus intelligence service made a call to Ryanair and made a bomb threat. What can Ireland or any other jurisdiction do about it? Pretty much nothing, especially if the call originated in Belarus.
Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by tonyarkles on Sunday May 23, 2021 @04:48PM (#27258469)
Committed a serious crime? Sure. Will there be actual consequences for that individual? Unlikely.
Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by throwaway21_ on Sunday May 23, 2021 @05:24PM (#27258719)
> What happened in the Snowden case was DIPLOMACY ("you may not travel here if you carry this man"), not force.

And MiG-29 sprinkled same kind of diplomacy here - they weren't shot down, they just were diplomatically notified that in their best interest is to land down. See, no force, pure diplomacy.

Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by newacct583 on Sunday May 23, 2021 @06:27PM (#27259217)
Again, there was no force with the Morales plane. No one can enter another nation's airspace without permission. They were simply denied permission. It's the difference between being denied boarding for an international flight because you forgot your passport and being arrested once you land. One is "force", one is not.

Denying Morale's plane permission was an act of diplomacy, albeit a very uncommon one and one in pursuit of an unjust goal.

Forcing down a foreign airplane on an international flight to arrest someone on it is an act of war. Sorry.

Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by throwaway21_ on Monday May 24, 2021 @04:25AM (#27262138)
Nope, that airplane was in Belarus airspace so it's up to them to decide if they want it landed or not. If you don't like it nobody is forcing you to fly over Belarus. Their airspace - their rules.

Same thing happened on 9/11 - US chose do land all aircrafts, and in case that anyone disobeyed orders it would be promptly shot down - foreign planes or not, it didn't matter in slightest.

Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by newacct583 on Monday May 24, 2021 @10:39AM (#27264868)
First, no, there are no international treaties about forcing aircraft to the ground. That is an extraordinary thing done in circumstances of immediate safety concerns. There are, however, treaties that have been in place about unfettered airspace transit access (no idea which exactly Belarus is a signatory to), and this was pretty clearly in violation of those. There is no "you're in our airspace so we do what we like" rule in international air travel, and that's ridiculous to suggest.

Second: they let the plane in on a flight plan that clearly took it to Vilnius. Again, that's false pretenses.

Per the analogy above: consider a consulate telling someone "sure, you can board this plane without your passport, it's fine" and then arresting the person for a visa violation on landing.

Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by throwaway21_ on Monday May 24, 2021 @01:00PM (#27266818)
Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by newacct583 on Monday May 24, 2021 @03:11PM (#27268480)
The whataboutism here is just insane. Ronald Reagan OK's an interception of a plane containing a known terrorist 36 years ago and now it's OK to hijack airliners anywhere in the world for any reason?

Yeah, this is trolling.

Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by caf on Monday May 24, 2021 @03:18AM (#27261774)
What would have happened if his plane had tried to cross into Spain regardless? Do you think 'force' might have been involved? Is not denying overflight ultimately backed by force?
Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by newacct583 on Monday May 24, 2021 @10:46AM (#27264952)
> What would have happened if his plane had tried to cross into Spain regardless?

A major international incident (the head of state of one nation violating the airspace of another) that completely and utterly dwarfs whatever nonsense was going on with Snowden. I know it's hard for geeks here to understand, but Snowden just isn't that important.

Again: he wasn't even on the plane. And Morales apparently had no intention of putting him on there. He was just pissed off that no one trusted him about that.

Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by caf on Monday May 24, 2021 @11:16AM (#27265328)
It would have been intercepted and forced to land, that's what.
Re:Belarus 'diverts Ryanair flight to arrest journalist', op... by newacct583 on Monday May 24, 2021 @12:38PM (#27266471)
You're completely missing the point, or else trolling.

The Ryanair plane didn't deliberately violate the airspace of Belarus in violation of withdrawn permission, they filed a flight plan to Vilnius just like they had every day for years and years. It was an airliner on a scheduled flight.

Your counterfactual involving a deliberate invasion of another country seems... extraordinarily weird. I mean, yes, countries defend their airspace when it's invaded by other nations in violation of established treaties. Duh. That is not what happened yesterday at all and you fucking know it. Stop this.