Anecdotal, but all my elders who committed to supporting their grand kids; taking them to soccer and such, lived on their own into their 90s.

The ones that died before 80 had turned into hermits, spending their last few months in industrialized care homes.

Being obliged to contribute to communal work may come along with cognitive health benefit.

I don’t have an issue with caretakers being relied on for difficult health reasons. But are we creating health problems through social norms?

Sometimes you don’t want the grandparents around. There’s a reason many people move out, ya know? The amount of shitty parents that don’t deserve a single thing from their children is massive.

And for that reason, we do need an industry built up around elderly care and facilitating independence from elders.

I was shocked to learn recently of the Singaporean legal concept of “parental maintenance” where parents are entitled to financial support from their adult children and can use the court system to enforce payment. Kind of like reverse child support or alimony.

Gross. Is there a way to get out of that legally? That’s a system ripe for abuse from abusive parents. Continue the abuse well past childhood and into adulthood. What a great country.

There simply must be more loving parents than abusive parents?

Parents pay for their kids often well into their 20s. Many of them also help with caring for their grandchildren. Seems just fair to ask for something in return in case of need? There is a similar concept in Germany where you do have to pay part of the nursing home fees if your parents require assistance and can’t live on their own.

Having a child is an informed choice; it's by all objective means a hugely unfair deal yet many people are opting into it for emotional (or hormonal) reasons. Not because they want to materially slave for their kids however, but because they love them and/or want to leave a legacy.

You chose to bring a child into this world. They owe you absolutely nothing for it. They'll help you if they feel love and/or obligation for you, just like I will keep supporting my widowed mother until her death.

But this shouldn't be expected by default -- or legally enforced. It should be a choice. We pay enough taxes as it is, surely the politicians can spare some change to care for our elders.

Point to where I wrote they had to live with the family?

Who is going to let random old people let them take care of their kids then? Who is going to house them? You’d let random abusive parents take care of your kids and live with you?

you’re all over the map talking about grandparents moving out (which implied to me you meant blood relatives), now you’re on about an social wide norm of random old people.

But since you mention it, I DO have a “random old person” watching my kids right now as I live thousands of miles away from my biological parents for now.

There are daycares being busted for neglect and abuse so industrialization is hardly a solution to the problem of finding the right person.

I’m done with the patronizing attitude. Have a good day.

Edit: yes down vote me for not agreeing with you, and having a reasonable rebuttal. Weird flex, but ydy.

Just for reference, you can’t downvote people who reply to you directly. So, it’s not me downvoting you.