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Re:MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (201... by pclmulqdq on Saturday May 15, 2021 @10:13PM (#27170637)
FPGA evangelists like this really need a reality check. Programming in RTL is not easy, and it's not really a skill that most people need, so it doesn't make a lot of sense as an educational tool.

The "killer app" for hobbyist FPGAs might be some sort of "SoC builder" tool that lets you build a specific microcontroller around a few high-performance cores, and then program it like software.

But don't worry. Since 2000, mainstream FPGA programming has been right around the corner.

Re:MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (201... by mypalmike on Saturday May 15, 2021 @10:40PM (#27170775)
The SoC builder you describe might be the MiSTer project for console hardware emulation. But even then, the number of people who develop verilog for that project is rather tiny.

However, it's the first platform that has gotten me, a long time software developer, to really look into how it works. As in, I've been working through verilog tutorials, etc. and formulating a project to build on it. Compare to when I first bought a Xilinx FPGA dev board some 20 years ago, I found that I had no idea what to do with it, and there were not many resources to learn from compared to today. I don't think it's going to be mainstream soon, but there's definitely been some progress.

Re:MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (201... by swiley on Sunday May 16, 2021 @05:10AM (#27172355)
Meh. HDL isn't that hard and there are good books on it. The main reason FPGA programming is unpopular is because the tools are pretty hideous. Icestorm makes things a lot better but it supports like 5 parts and they're not very powerful ones.
Re:MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (201... by exikyut on Sunday May 16, 2021 @11:36AM (#27174352)
How cheap are the devkits, can I easily source <10 unit quantities for <$ouch, and what are the limitations?

- Fundamental questions I imagine a semi-interested tinkerer would be asking

Re:MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (201... by swiley on Sunday May 16, 2021 @12:46PM (#27174908)
devkits compatible with icestorm? I have an icestick that I've messed with, at 1x it costs $20 (at least when I bought it off amazon.)
Re:MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (201... by canada_dry on Sunday May 16, 2021 @12:23AM (#27171211)
> Since 2000, mainstream FPGA programming has been right around the corner.

As an avid technologist I dabble in everything from electronics to assembler. But, every time I try dipping my toe into FPGA programming I quickly retreat!

The tools are too complex and the whole process has a learning curve that far out weigh using a stock CPU/SoC.

Re:MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (201... by FPGAhacker on Sunday May 16, 2021 @02:41AM (#27171701)
> The tools are too complex and the whole process has a learning curve that far out weigh using a stock CPU/SoC.

Sadly this is true, although the open source tools are gaining ground pretty quickly from what I understand. https://symbiflow.github.io/getting-started.html

Re:MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (201... by detaro on Sunday May 16, 2021 @12:40PM (#27174865)
Accessibility of FPGAs has made massive strides since 2000. You can nowadays get people build a really basic FPGA demo in an hour, starting with a dev board and their unprepared laptop, and even I remember times where you'd struggle to get the tooling installed in that time.

(Not going to go into "mainstream", because that's a) incredibly vague (is microcontroller programming "mainstream"?) and b) IMHO not that interesting - it's fine for specialist things to be accessible but not mainstream)

Re:MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (201... by FPGAhacker on Sunday May 16, 2021 @02:40AM (#27171697)
Personally I think "programming" RTL is dead simple. It's so simple, in fact, that it's not even interesting. But I've been doing it forever so my perspective is skewed.
Re:MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (201... by pclmulqdq on Sunday May 16, 2021 @07:23AM (#27172898)
I think you are thinking of different types of tasks. A lot of RTL is brainless, but if you are actually trying to compute with it, it can get tough.

A mediocre C++ programmer can write a (bad) hash table in C++ in a few hours. How fast can you give me one in Verilog?

Re:MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (201... by IQunder130 on Sunday May 16, 2021 @08:23AM (#27173193)
You're not writing a hash table in verilog, you're writing a hardware configuration that can hold and manipulate a hash table. It's a different ball game.
Re:MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (201... by FPGAhacker on Sunday May 16, 2021 @07:26PM (#27178222)
I have to make a lot of assumptions, but a couple hours doesn't seem unreasonable for the core function. Among the many assumptions are the hash function, what is actually being hashed, what processor interface is, desired performance, etc.
Re:MicroFPGA – A coming revolution in small electronics (201... by blihp on Sunday May 16, 2021 @12:24AM (#27171218)