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Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by mjgs on Saturday May 15, 2021 @02:19AM (#27162893)
I wonder how significant it is that there is all this worldwide expansion of chip making factories just as we get to 3nm architectures, I say that because there aren’t very many nm’s left, what happens when we get to zero?
Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by exporectomy on Saturday May 15, 2021 @02:28AM (#27162934)
We already ran out of microns in the 1990's.
Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by LatteLazy on Saturday May 15, 2021 @03:44AM (#27163275)
Silicon atoms are only 0.235nm apart. So at 1nm you only have 5 atoms left. At 0.2nm you have one atom lleft and it stops behaving like a semiconductor. So there are real physical limits to nm scale devices that don't apply to micron sized ones.

Admittedly were not as close to those limits as it seems since "nm" quoted on CPUs etc is no longer a literal size of the object. But we're getting there...

Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by imtringued on Saturday May 15, 2021 @09:08AM (#27164857)
>Admittedly were not as close to those limits as it seems since "nm" quoted on CPUs etc is no longer a literal size of the object. But we're getting there...

nm process numbers are based on the theoretical feature size that a planar transistor process would need to be equivalent to the used process. Since this number is purely theoretical the lower bound is zero, it can go well below the plank length.

Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by mjgs on Saturday May 15, 2021 @07:13AM (#27164205)
So we got 5 atoms left? Shit that’s not a lot is it.
Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by mjgs on Saturday May 15, 2021 @07:12AM (#27164202)
lol
Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by parsecs on Saturday May 15, 2021 @02:26AM (#27162923)
It's mostly a marketing term right? They might do something like 0.5 or add some letters like X or whatever.
Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by whatbutwhy on Saturday May 15, 2021 @03:52AM (#27163309)
I think so. IBM recently produced a new "5nm" chip. In reality the physical size is closer to 24nm, if I remember correctly. The numbers you hear don't literally mean the physical size of the transistor, it refers to something else.
Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by naruvimama on Saturday May 15, 2021 @06:00AM (#27163871)
Most chips are 2D. IBM made a 2nn equivalent in 2D, by using 3D.
Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by archseer on Saturday May 15, 2021 @04:03AM (#27163351)
Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by dougmwne on Saturday May 15, 2021 @02:45AM (#27163007)
I wonder if the end of chip performance improvements could cause a short term boost in manufacturing investment and sales. Instead of chip investments in products and data centers surely becoming obsolete in a few years, useable lifetimes could be measured in decades if the chip designs and performance are not expected to change. If you can get 30 years out of a data center investment instead of 5, you can spend a lot more money and amortized it for longer.
Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by mjgs on Saturday May 15, 2021 @10:33PM (#27170740)
It’s certainly interesting to think about. We’ve been accelerating these chip improvements at exponential rates for a lot of years, and essentially just as we hit the highest speed ever, and highest dependence, we are going to hit a brick wall of sorts. There’s going to be a massive spill over somewhere. Unless there’s some new fancy hardware invention, then the next thing to happen will be a software optimisation mania.
Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by pengaru on Saturday May 15, 2021 @02:26AM (#27162924)
angstroms
Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by mjgs on Saturday May 15, 2021 @07:19AM (#27164245)
I wonder what the abbreviation will be, it doesn’t have an obvious one.
Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by exporectomy on Saturday May 15, 2021 @02:28AM (#27162936)
NO! Bad unit!
Re:TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks... by cerved on Saturday May 15, 2021 @04:47AM (#27163535)
Ångström is the shit