Re:Bill Hwang of Archegos Capital lost $20B in two days
by twic on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @02:14PM
(#27133393)
Creating a limited company purely to Dockerise your own wild trades might not work, though - that might be a piercable veil:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piercing_the_corporate_veil#Un...
Re:Bill Hwang of Archegos Capital lost $20B in two days
by fennecfoxen on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @05:45PM
(#27135531)
Yeah, the "holding corp with a business plan to buy a building with a down payment and a mortgage — renovating it, collecting rent and deprecation, and later selling, hopefully for a profit" is a pretty normal thing, and describing a huge portion of commercial real estate (n.b. this means real estate owned for profit, not in the SimCity zoning sense). A failure leaves the lender owning the building. This is expected.
A single owner running insanely levered stock trades, though, could easily be found grossly undercapitalized, and that's another matter entirely.
Re:Bill Hwang of Archegos Capital lost $20B in two days
by fallingfrog on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @02:32PM
(#27133575)
I thought there was some kind of separation between ownership and management in an llc? Like, the company is its own entity, it makes its own decisions, and it can borrow money by itself. And then the individual shareholders are not liable for the company’s debts.
But you’re saying that the sole shareholder can also be the management?
I guess in that case it’s really up to the bank or brokerage to have enough sense to not lend your llc money if the business plan is to fly to Vegas and put it all on red..
Re:Bill Hwang of Archegos Capital lost $20B in two days
by fennecfoxen on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @05:49PM
(#27135561)
> But you’re saying that the sole shareholder can also be the management?
Yeah, there are plenty of single-owner LLCs. It's the go-to small-company structure.
The limited-liability corporation structure moreover has some majorly useful properties for society. For instance, you probably own some shares of a major pharmaceutical company in your portfolio (through a retirement fund). If the company loses a lawsuit related to, say, the opioid epidemic, and owes billions, and goes totally bankrupt, then you can 100% lose your stake in the company as it is turned over to creditors — but those creditors cannot go after you personally as an owner of the corporation for every dollar that you own; your liability is limited. This has democratized investing a lot, and individual investors benefit quite a bit, as they have lesser risk tolerance than the billionaires.
However, the limitation of liability is a reason prudent lenders ought consider the risks inherent in lending to you. For instance, if you bring an adequate down payment, and you are using the proceeds to purchase an asset that has some reasonable value — the worst case is they're stuck with a building still worth something, plus the down payment. The problem, again, is when taxpayers end up becoming imprudent lenders because of policy or bailouts.