Very few people practice consistent logic regarding opt in versus opt out. In nearly every case I’ve observed people are pro opt in for things they don’t like and pro opt out of things do like. Hence the push to make organ donation opt out and privacy invasion opt in. I don’t think there should be an expectation of being consistent, it’s just an observation.

Funny how in this case, we're talking about two tracking efforts, so it would be expected that both were opt-in to respect our privacy. The difference is that one kind of tracking helps Apple make money, and the other doesn't.

How does helping other people find their lost items (with neither Apple nor the "helper" knowing where the item is, now who lost it) infringe on anyone's privacy?

How about if I just don't want Apple collecting data at will or using my device as a private mesh network?

Um, then don't enable "Find My iPhone" when setting up your device??

One would have thought by now people who get Apple devices should have stopped thinking of them as "my device".

What data is Apple collecting? All of the data is anonymised and encrypted so that even Apple can't decrypt it.

I don't really think either of those things apply here, although the implementation is pretty crucial.

AirTags have some protections against using them to track people, and the AirTag network doesn't appear to leak any private information. That last part could be completely wrong, for all we know: it relies on the software to be correct. The whole point of the gizmo is to "track", and I struggle to come up with an improvement to their solution to allowing users to track things but not stalk people.

This is being automatically enrolled in some kind of public good, where "public" is the Apple ecosystem. Is that bad? I mean, I don't mind, but offering an opt-out seems... polite, at least?

It does let you to opt-out.

> The whole point of the gizmo is to "track", and I struggle to come up with an improvement to their solution to allowing users to track things but not stalk people.

Let the user block types of devices from using their "find network". And let them block individual devices from using the "find network" through their phone.

If everyone could see, every local device, there would be no private tracking.

I don't actually understand what you're proposing here?

Sibling comments point out that opting out of the AirTag network is a setting in a given iOS device, which I didn't know, but I don't think that's what you mean.

Stalking people who don't use iOS is fine though. It's a good thing they're not as important.

The idea that AirTags are much of a step up from what a determined stalker is already using[1] to stalk people is a laughable one.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/GPS-Trackers/b?node=617650011

GPS trackers with LTE radios have battery limitations. AirTags are only communicating with local iPhones so they can be smaller and last longer.

Then why do they provide protections against being tracked by them only to iOS users?

How do you propose they extend this to other platforms?

What would stop them from creating an Android app to notify users if an AirTag seems to be travelling with them?

They easily could, agreed.

They even might? It's not unheard of for Apple to release software on other platforms, however uncommon it might be. It's certainly not the kind of thing they do right at the time of release.

I don't imagine you'd get much penetration relative to running it on every device at the OS level, though. Probably rough on the battery running in userspace?

It doesn't seem like it solves a problem most people are likely to have.

They didn't try at all. I wouldn't personally sell a device such as this as I believe it is very ethically grey unless you seriously consider mitigation measures that are available to everyone.

They do provide as much protection as they possibly can to those who do not. The device will beep, and it works as an NFC tag to get information about what it is on non-iOS phones.

Those measures don't sound like they'll be very effective if an AirTag is planted on the underside of a vehicle.

No offense, but this is lunacy.

People are not going to use AirTags to more effectively stalk people than the existing GPS trackers on the market. GPS tracker would be much better in fact.

Every device has its own characteristics.

AirTag: Very economical (no monthly fee), 1 year battery life, no line-of-sight required, easily purchased without attracting attention or providing an address, unguaranteed data freshness, size of a coin.

GPS tracker: Monthly fees, 1 month battery life, line-of-sight required, slightly unusual thing to purchase & may be difficult to obtain without supplying an address, usually better data freshness, at least as big as a box of tic tacs.

It's not that AirTags would always be ideal for stalking, but considering the ease of availability & use, it's definitely going to happen. The most interesting part is that Apple decided to release this product. It's only a matter of time until AirTags are linked to a case of stalking (whether the best device for it or not) and when that article gets written, it's simply not going to be aligned with the brand image they typically aim for.

You forgot to mention: rats the stalker out immediately if the stalkee has an iOS device, or the first time someone with an iPhone hops in the car if they use Android.

The latter isn't something under the stalker's control, it's just a really poor tool for that particular type of antisocial behavior.

Plus it's tied to your Apple account, so we're talking about getting a fresh iPhone and ginning up an account, or leaking exactly who is doing the stalking.

The number of people who will try it isn't zero, we don't live in that kind of world. I don't picture it going very well for them.

> Plus it's tied to your Apple account, so we're talking about getting a fresh iPhone and ginning up an account, or leaking exactly who is doing the stalking.

iPhones can be grabbed used for fairly low prices, same for Apple accounts.

As can GPS trackers.

Not a whole lot Apple can do about that. The fact that they built it into iOS shows the amount of thought that went into it.

So was stalking people who don't have the Tile app installed fine then? Because they can be used in the exact same way.

This is simply nonsense.

Apple asks you every, single time you upgrade your iOS/OSX device to confirm your privacy and telemetry settings.

And all of the features they implement are private by design. They use features such as differential privacy to make sure they aren't leaking private data: https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Differential_Privacy_Over...