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Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by kurthr on Monday May 10, 2021 @06:19PM (#27111584)
Yeah, at this point I can't tell trolls from idiots. Like it's a lifestyle.

You're at a restaurant on the ocean and some fairly educated dude wants to go all flat earth. I'm like, "let me go get some binoculars and you can tell me why the bottom of the container ship falls below the horizon first. We can even estimate the distance based on size of ship and magnification factor to get a radius for the earth".... "No, it doesn't work that way".

Huh? Why are all the other planets round? Why does the earth cast a round shadow on the moon (vice versa for eclipse)? Why can you fly to India in either direction in the same amount of time? It's conspiracy theories all the way down.

Stupid, angry, or willfully ignorant, they're painful to talk to.

Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by robotresearcher on Monday May 10, 2021 @07:28PM (#27112199)
> they're painful to talk to.

Your discomfort is the point for them.

Quickly figuring out that you're in such an interaction and bailing before your day is ruined is the best you can hope for in the short term.

Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by guntars on Monday May 10, 2021 @08:13PM (#27112599)
Exactly, tell them to fuck off with a smile.
Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by cutemonster on Monday May 10, 2021 @10:53PM (#27113714)
> > Your discomfort is the point for them

What do they gain from causing such discomfort to others?

They might not believe so very seriously in their own ideas? (I never met a flat earther)

Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by Viliam1234 on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @06:56AM (#27116502)
> What do they gain from causing such discomfort to others?

Most people play some kinds of irrational games to generate emotions they are addicted to. The difference is what kind of emotions they want, and what kind of scenarios they use to obtain it. There is a popular book on this topic called "Games People Play", strongly recommended.

From the psychoanalytical perspective, all these games ultimately are sick attempts to indirectly extract symbols of love, when people are too afraid of a more direct approach (aren't we all sometimes?).

The recipe for this specific game is that I cause you discomfort, and if you continue interacting with me anyway, it means that you have forgiven me (for causing you the discomfort), which means that you care about me (otherwise why would you keep interacting with me). So I frustrate you in order to extract a costly signal of caring from you, so that I can feel loved for a moment.

Why not a more direct approach? First, I am afraid to ask whether you care about me, because you might say no. Even worse, if you said yes, I would still be suspect that you are lying; maybe you are just being polite. But when I cleverly extract forgiveness from you, if you stay with me regardless of the discomfort I cause, then I can be sure that you genuinely care.

Of course, the damage caused to both sides by this approach is obvious. But sometimes people just don't know how to do it better, and any symbol of love is better than nothing.

Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by cutemonster on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @05:43PM (#27135510)
Thanks for writing this, and makes me want to read the book
Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by Viliam1234 on Thursday May 13, 2021 @12:40PM (#27144250)
If you will enjoy the book, I would recommend reading also the sequel "What Do You Say After You Say Hello?". It is much less famous, probably because it was published posthumously, but I liked it even more. It needs to be read later, though, because it heavily references the "Games People Play".
Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by cutemonster on Thursday May 13, 2021 @07:01PM (#27148569)
Thanks
Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by gnarbarian on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @12:25AM (#27114205)
trolling can be a lot of fun. especially ideological adversaries. people will get incredibly twisted around their own axles And literally enraged over the opinion of some anonymous joker who they will never meet or have another interaction with. these feelings can follow you around for days vexing you and bringing you back to that negative state of mind. and that is hilarious to people who have learned to not give a shit about what some stranger thinks of them on the internet.

You have a lot of control over your own mind and emotions, so don't relinquish it to malevolent tricksters. And if you can't do that quit social media. but really everyone should quit social media probably.

Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by cutemonster on Wednesday May 12, 2021 @05:50PM (#27135576)
> trolling can be a lot of fun.

Yes, was trolling with my cat sometimes, as a child, she got angry, it was fun (but I stopped when I grew up)

> these feelings can follow you around for days vexing you and bringing you back to that negative state of mind. and that is hilarious to [the trolls]

Good point, I've felt those feelings indeed (and maybe the cat too)

Agreed that social media can be like that, and also, it steals time

Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by galaxyLogic on Monday May 10, 2021 @07:09PM (#27112025)
> Stupid, angry, or willfully ignorant, they're painful to talk to.

I think that is the intention behind their social discourse, to be painful. To disagree. To prove that they are superior.

Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by javajosh on Monday May 10, 2021 @11:52PM (#27114045)
It is an exercise in power, a pale imitation of O'Brian in 1984:

>Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in shapes of your own choosing.

Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by adolph on Monday May 10, 2021 @09:56PM (#27113284)
> Why are all the other planets round? Why does the earth cast a round shadow on the moon (vice versa for eclipse)? Why can you fly to India in either direction in the same amount of time?

Well, “round” can be an attribute of a plane; its typically referred to as a circle. A more descriptive term is “spheroid” but outside of a small set of long-distance navigation tasks the flat earth mental model is perfectly sufficient and computationally less expensive.

Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by dukeofdoom on Monday May 10, 2021 @11:01PM (#27113777)
Not a Flat Earther, but its not beyond the realm of possibility reality might be a two dimensional projection. Despite our sensory perceptions. Look into "Holographic Universe".
Re:Perverse Downstream Consequences of Debunking by tablespoon on Tuesday May 11, 2021 @01:55AM (#27114694)
> Not a Flat Earther, but its not beyond the realm of possibility reality might be a two dimensional projection. Despite our sensory perceptions. Look into "Holographic Universe".

Flat Earthers are never talking about a "holographic universe," though. They're always talking about the Earth being like a board whose edges you could fall off from.