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Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by crumbshot on Sunday May 09, 2021 @09:44PM (#27101807)
> We should shut down Russian infrastructure as retaliation.

How about, instead of causing harm to innocent Russian people by such pointless escalation, the US makes a serious and meaningful effort to secure their critical national infrastructure. As they should have done in the first place.

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Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by neither_color on Sunday May 09, 2021 @11:29PM (#27102413)
I was a child when 9/11 happened but I still remember the experts on TV assuring us that Iraq had those weapons of mass destruction.
Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by dragonwriter on Sunday May 09, 2021 @11:39PM (#27102464)
I was an adult, and I remember the experts on TV (and print and other media) debunking the “experts” you refer to, often in near real time. And, unlike the latter, the former often had the receipts (fairly literally, in the case of the debunking of the “Winnebagos of Mass Destruction”.)
Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by Pfhreak on Monday May 10, 2021 @12:30AM (#27102702)
I was also an adult, and the fervor over WMD was unreal. And not just WMDs, but stupid shit like "Freedom Fries" and "These colors don't run". The spike in nationalism was awful to behold.
Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by dragonwriter on Monday May 10, 2021 @10:07AM (#27106100)
> I was also an adult, and the fervor over WMD was unreal

Sure, the fervor was, as were lots of emotional aspects of the post-9/11 wave of Islamophobic hysteria. And certainly the opinion and commentary programs of the major TV news networks were often engaged in that (Fox, of course, but also MSNBC and CNN, both of whom reacted to Fox in the early 00’s even before 9/11 by chasing the bias in Fox opinion/commentary — not so much actual news — which definitely contributed to their slant and the reinforced the national post-9/11 mood well pay the beginning of the Iraq War.) This effect was smaller in the print media (but even greater in blogs, which were taking off as the new distinctly online media and didn’t tend to segregate fact and commentary or otherwise act like traditional media.)

That’s why the widely disseminated debunkings of the WMD propaganda in news coverage were also widely disregarded, but there has since become a revisionist narrative which pretends that the WMD propaganda was generally presented as unquestioned fact and contrary information suppressed by the news media.

Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by crumbshot on Sunday May 09, 2021 @09:53PM (#27101870)
This is the most "keyboard warrior" comment I've ever read.
Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by kgeist on Sunday May 09, 2021 @10:55PM (#27102224)
>If we shut down Russian infrastructure and Russian civilians get caught in the crossfire, the Russian government can blame themselves

A very naive statement. The Russian government doesn't work like that. They NEVER admit they were wrong. They don't care about civilians. They have culture of complete denial, even in the presence of indisputible facts. They will say US attacks on Russia is yet another proof of US' hostile, aggressive behavior towards Russia in a greater geopolitical game (especially when presented proofs of Russia's involvement are pretty weak, like "the hacker group never attacked Russian infrastructure" - I bet they never attacked North Korea either), giving Putin an excuse to crackdown on opposition and restrict/reduce Russians' freedom/human rights even more, further militarizing things and increasing attacks on US infra.

Actually strengthening security is the only proper solution, to make that kind of attacks futile and unprofitable. It's usually not some ingenious attacks but just simple negligence of the targets.

Source: I'm from Russia

Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by daxaxelrod on Sunday May 09, 2021 @09:11PM (#27101586)
No we should not. We should hunt down those individuals that are responsible but if we get into this tit for tat escalation pattern it might end poorly for all parties involved.
Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by sidlls on Sunday May 09, 2021 @09:29PM (#27101714)
And if “the individuals” turn out to be operatives of the Russian government?

I find as world events unfold these last few years I have drifted away from my isolationist/non-interventionist views. I wouldn’t say I’d advocate for a military response (either electronic or physically destructive) at this point, but I wouldn’t think badly of our government if they did something like that.

Americans have become a rather stupidly optimistic/ignorant people. Russia and China will absolutely destroy us if we don’t aggressively counter their military aggression. And that’s what attacks like this are: military aggression. We ought to start acting like it.

Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by SvenMarquardt on Sunday May 09, 2021 @10:17PM (#27102009)
They've already succeeded. America is already unprecedentedly divided and demoralised.

“One need not destroy one's enemy. One need only destroy his willingness to engage.”

― Sun Tzu

Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by dang on Monday May 10, 2021 @01:26AM (#27102998)
Since this account appears to be using HN primarily for ideological battle and that's against the site guidelines, we've banned it. Please don't create accounts to do that with. It's not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...

Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by maxqin1 on Sunday May 09, 2021 @09:59PM (#27101905)
Agreed. That said, we need to do it now before some populist lunatic is compelled to attempt it.
Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by mensetmanusman on Sunday May 09, 2021 @09:38PM (#27101774)
Actually, tit-for-tat is gametheoretic stable.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_tat

Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by ruskimir on Sunday May 09, 2021 @09:13PM (#27101597)
Yes we should. There is no justification for why we meekly let them have at it cyberspace. It should be pain for pain. Russians will never learn until they feel pain.
Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by syops on Sunday May 09, 2021 @09:51PM (#27101856)
I can think of some reasons why we should not retaliate against the Russian government. Perhaps we have more to lose in escalation. I don't know if this is true but it might be. If this is an attack at the behest/approval of the Russian government we don't know why they made the attack. It could be a response to something we did to them. We should not get riled up because what hasn't been reported is likely the real story. We just don't know and as citizens we ought not clamor for our leaders to respond. That sort of clamoring has in the past had very negative consequences.
Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by adventured on Sunday May 09, 2021 @11:37PM (#27102455)
> Perhaps we have more to lose in escalation.

We can entirely, safely remove Russia from the global Internet and we can do it trivially. That's exactly what we should do if they press attacks too far: isolate them. They have the increasingly government controlled Runet to restrict their people's access to the outside world, we should barricade them in.

Their economy is small, close to meaningless. It's nearly a rounding error at this point in the global economy and it'll continue to shrink in that relationship. The sole thing to be concerned about with Russia is their nuclear arsenal.

Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by syops on Sunday May 09, 2021 @11:45PM (#27102484)
Their economy is small and ours large. Therefore we have more to lose possibly. Removing them from the internet will not prevent their ability to mount attacks. It makes it more difficult but not impossible. We cyber attacked an Iranian nuclear facility that was air gapped.
Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by natch on Sunday May 09, 2021 @09:20PM (#27101648)
I like the concept of holding Russia (as with any country) responsible assuming they are, but your reply didn’t address the escalating pattern of tit for tat, and how to deal with that.
Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by SoylentYellow on Sunday May 09, 2021 @09:34PM (#27101744)
Perhaps a sort of cyber-MAD comes out of the escalation and the Russian government cracks down on the group to prevent their own serious infrastructure disruptions.
Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by elefanten on Sunday May 09, 2021 @09:40PM (#27101782)
Here's the answer: it hasn't been tit for tat. It's been all tit.

At some point, you have to tat.

Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by peteretep on Sunday May 09, 2021 @09:58PM (#27101899)
> We should shut down Russian infrastructure as retaliation

Sanctions against key people are probably more effective while not causing too much anti-American sentiment in the general population or a rally around the flag effect. Hard to rile up the people because a dodgy oligarch can no longer keep his roubles in a London bank, where Babushka Svetlana freezing to death 'cuz the Yankees cut the gas is a martyrdom event.

Re:US passes emergency waiver over fuel pipeline cyber-attack by Pfhreak on Monday May 10, 2021 @12:32AM (#27102713)
Not to mention sanctions cost real human lives. The people who will be starving aren't the same folks who are mounting highly complex, large scale ransomware attacks.