He might be a very effective marketer and manager, but he gets credit for so so much more than that. Like he singlehandedly made electric cars a thing. It's the Great Man theory of history.

Even then, effective marketing are often lies, so why value effective marketing? Effective management is so often toxic, so why value effective management? As far as I can tell, he's full of BS and his employees are treated poorly, so I really don't care so much that he's first to market.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory

> As far as I can tell, he's full of BS

This is the sort extreme polarised view I was referring to. All I can say is NASA doesn't agree with you on this.

The problem is, if you go straight to "he's full of BS" it just kills all sensible debate. He's clearly not full of BS. He's delivering astronauts to the Space Station via his "startup". This is not something someone "full of BS" achieves.

You're misunderstanding what I mean. Very uncharitably, if you think I somehow missed the fact he's delivering astronauts to the ISS and delivering cars. For god's sake, I agreed with you that he's very effective! You're seeing a much more "extreme polarized" statement that I wrote.

I'm not saying every single thing he says is BS, like he's going around saying the sky is green and up is down. Just that he says a whole lot of shit that isn't true also.

Ok fair enough, I may have read more into your comment than you intended.

> He's delivering astronauts to the Space Station via his "startup". This is not something someone "full of BS" achieves.

Great! What are the margins? Most likely terrible because you have to build real stuff.

You know who ISN'T full of bullshit? Sergey Brin, Larry Page, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg.

They just STFU, present modest outlook to set the stage for the company to knock it out of the park Quarter after quarter.

I could care less about the rockets, the truth is in the boring numbers, not the showmanship

He can be an impressive engineer and entrepreneur while also being a jerk. I think it's ok to condemn his behaviors when they're out of line while also admiring the progress him and his companies have made in the industries they've targeted.

I feel like I've seen this before. A man is a relentless and masterful self-promoter, encourages a very public cult of personality, and puts out what are broadly considered superior products from his companies. He's also an egotistical prick.

It's the Steve Jobs approach.

Steve Jobs wasn’t a memelord shilling dogecoin on social media and tv.

Yep you summed that up better than I did.

I think it’s political tribalism more than anything else? It’s become more clear after this SNL thing.

On Twitter people on the left claim vaguely that Elon is bad and why is SNL doing this etc.

People on the right say Elon is great and SNL is normally unfunny.

In the former case I think it’s just because people associate Elon with the right for some reason.

The latter is easier to understand since a lot of SNL’s humor is explicitly political (not in a bad way imo).

Part of me wonders if the irreverent tweets were an intentional way to broaden his appeal. He needed EVs to go from “liberal” Prius symbols about the environment to cool.

That’s a Herculean task when you think about it. Even now there are still coal rolling truck drivers yelling at EVs, but the sentiment has definitely changed in a positive way.

He did this without having to embrace trump (unlike Thiel for instance).

I think his biggest miss was on covid, but he seems to agree that he was wrong.

I suspect a part of the left dislike is also around the progressive anti-billionaire/anti-capitalist sentiment, it makes Elon an easy “enemy”.

Putting all this aside and looking at what he’s building - it’s an exciting time to be alive. Most companies are fairly dull doing fairly dull things. Elon takes huge risks to try to pull the future down earlier. For the most part, he succeeds.

I think Elon's association with the right is largely due to his dudebro persona. He's what you get if you gave your average Rogan listener billions of dollars, a deep well of conviction, and an exceptional mind.

Among the political commentariat on the left, this kind of person is a Neanderthal that should be relegated to the dustbin of history.

For a lot of people on the outside of that demographic, he's just a fun, brilliant, if occasionally douchy guy who's way less out of touch than his billionaire contemporaries, and actually works to build neat things.

> “ For a lot of people on the outside of that demographic, he's just a fun, brilliant, if occasionally douchy guy who's way less out of touch than his billionaire contemporaries, and actually works to build neat things.”

Yeah - this is basically my take, and stated better than I did in my comment.

It is more that Elon does not associate himself with fashionable left wing causes. No kneeling photo-ops in SpaceX headquarters, no programs tailored to recruit specifically non-Asian non-whites etc.

In contemporary culture, that is enough to be considered right wing. Neutrality slowly ceased to be an option.

There are literally photo ops in spacex hqs! And a very publicized program dedicated to hiring engineers of color, and women. Whatever you might think of spacex, for the aerospace industry its batshit insane left wing (in this case mostly because of Gwynn Shotwell)

> I suspect a part of the left dislike is also around the progressive anti-billionaire/anti-capitalist sentiment, it makes Elon an easy “enemy”.

He IS an easy enemy in this regard, not only to the left. All his (mis)behaviour, naming his child like that, manipulating currency rates through tweets, that's not exactly what average people could afford. If he didn't fit this stereotype of billionaire, I'm sure he would be liked more.

The child name thing seemed more likely Grimes than Elon?

Even so I just don’t think these things are a big deal? I also don’t agree with the anti-billionaire/anti-capitalist sentiment though.

It’s just odd to me given how much he’s done to aid the transition to EVs and renewable energy. I guess it’s not a huge surprise, people are wildly inconsistent around tribal issues.

This is the same thing people said about Trump. "Maybe he said X crazy thing as part of a masterplan to..."

I've got bad news for you. There is no secret plan that explains the irrational behavior.

Just because it’s obviously false when it comes to Trump, doesn’t mean it’s false all of the time.

Also Elon’s behavior isn’t that serious (and he’s not POTUS).

Choose your own adventure !