I have engineer friends at Waymo that I went to school with who tell me that real self driving is 30 years out.

What does "real" mean to you? L4 self driving in most parts of dense cities in the American sunbelt and similar constraints for trucking represents massive revenue and a real business in my eyes.

If you mean driving like a human does with no priors over the area and in nearly any circumstance, I would agree.

Shocking that the outlook at a self-driving car company doesn't match the general outlook of the entire automotive industry.